Valentine's Day

[SikofLife]

There's lyrics in the song, "They remember this is Valentine's Day"

Is this a reference to The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre...

[laterali]

It could mean that people look at the calendar and say "Whoa, look at the calendar, it's valentines' day..."


What's the valentines' day massacre? I can't look it up, my mommy had the child proof thingy activated on my computer...

[Grotesque-DaDa]

9) Holy Wood:

Holy Wood decides to make her statement by going on a shooting spree during a Valentine’s Day dance Valentine’s Day, eagerly watching and waiting as her affluent “prey” show up in limousines The Fall Of Adam. She proceeds to engage in a shooting spree King Kill 33º, then takes her own life as the police close in Count to Six and Die. Her actions are captured on video, making headlines around the world as the revolution is quashed, it’s net result being only more carnage and death in an already violent world Lamb Of God.

[Burlesk]

maybe.. ? hmm

[SampleOfSoul]

In the supposed 10th chapter of the Holy Wood book, there is a character named Valentine. I cannot see the reason why this couldn't be her day.

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by Grotesque-DaDa
9) Holy Wood:

Holy Wood decides to make her statement by going on a shooting spree during a Valentine’s Day dance Valentine’s Day, eagerly watching and waiting as her affluent “prey” show up in limousines The Fall Of Adam. She proceeds to engage in a shooting spree King Kill 33º, then takes her own life as the police close in Count to Six and Die. Her actions are captured on video, making headlines around the world as the revolution is quashed, it’s net result being only more carnage and death in an already violent world Lamb Of God.

Dear sweet Jebus, no!

There is no massacre, King Kill 33 is not a killing spree, and the character in question does not take their own life in Count to Six and Die.

[Calypso]

Originally posted by Grotesque-DaDa
9) Holy Wood:

Holy Wood decides to make her statement by going on a shooting spree during a Valentine’s Day dance Valentine’s Day, eagerly watching and waiting as her affluent “prey” show up in limousines The Fall Of Adam. She proceeds to engage in a shooting spree King Kill 33º, then takes her own life as the police close in Count to Six and Die. Her actions are captured on video, making headlines around the world as the revolution is quashed, it’s net result being only more carnage and death in an already violent world Lamb Of God.

You have quite the imagination.

The Valentine's Day massacre was a mob shoot out I believe- but I forget the bloody gangsters name- one of the most famous. Damn.

In the supposed 10th chapter of the Holy Wood book, there is a character named Valentine. I cannot see the reason why this couldn't be her day.

This is what I believe as well.

[Hazekiah]

Originally posted by SikofLife
There's lyrics in the song, "They remember this is Valentine's Day"

Wrong. "...they'd remember this as Valentine's Day..."



Originally posted by SampleOfSoul
In the supposed 10th chapter of the Holy Wood book, there is a character named Valentine. I cannot see the reason why this couldn't be her day.

Supposed? Don't you think Manson might've said something about it if someone hacked his site and planted false material?

And Valentine is a MALE Secret Service agent and extremely Machiavellian behind-the-scenes conductor orchestrating the fate of the country through his political puppet, President White.



Originally posted by Grotesque-DaDa
9) Holy Wood:

Holy Wood decides to make her statement by going on a shooting spree during a Valentine’s Day dance Valentine’s Day, eagerly watching and waiting as her affluent “prey” show up in limousines The Fall Of Adam. She proceeds to engage in a shooting spree King Kill 33º, then takes her own life as the police close in Count to Six and Die. Her actions are captured on video, making headlines around the world as the revolution is quashed, it’s net result being only more carnage and death in an already violent world Lamb Of God.

Utter shite. Blech.



Originally posted by Calypso
The Valentine's Day massacre was a mob shoot out I believe- but I forget the bloody gangsters name- one of the most famous.

Al Capone is popularly believed to have ordered the hit against rival mob boss Bugs Moran's top operatives, who never had a chance, let alone a gunfight. Less of a shoot-out and more of a straight-up slaughter.

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by Hazekiah
[B]Wrong. "...they'd remember this as Valentine's Day..."



And that makes a huge difference too :) its not Valentines Day (the celebration), its Valentine's Day.

I'm quite fond of Valentine dangling the president around like some sort of disturbed pupetteer.

He should make to be a very interesting character.

[Calypso]

Al Capone is popularly believed to have ordered the hit against rival mob boss Bugs Moran's top operatives, who never had a chance, let alone a gunfight. Less of a shoot-out and more of a straight-up slaughter.

Thank you for clarifying that; it was really bothering me!

[Mr_Hollywood]

To me, when i hear that line, its the part in the story where everyone will look back and remember that day. They will remember that day because thats the day Adam, Omega,Antichrist Superstar, whatever color you like to paint the story, rose to power. It was during his concert, on Valentines Day, I Want To Disappear, Born Again, and Irresponsible Hate Anthem were all played during this concert. Im not too keen on many other details, but I always thought that they song Valentines Day connected the three previous Recorded Live Valentines Day 1997 songs.

Just a thought.

[Hazekiah]

Originally posted by Mr_Hollywood
It was during his concert, on Valentines Day, I Want To Disappear, Born Again, and Irresponsible Hate Anthem were all played during this concert. Im not too keen on many other details, but I always thought that they song Valentines Day connected the three previous Recorded Live Valentines Day 1997 songs.

In case you meant that first point literally, you should know that neither "I Want to Disappear" nor "Born Again" were actually played at Manson's show on Valentine's Day of '97. I promise. I was there. Trust me, I'd remember.

And once more, nowhere has Manson EVER said that "I Want to Disappear" was even allegedly recorded on the same day as "Born Again" and "Irresponsible Hate Anthem."

But, yes...clearly "Valentine's Day" correlates to the two songs "recorded" on that day. Good detective work. :P And don't forget "Sick City."

P.S. "Valentine's Day" and "Valentines Day" are both acceptable forms of the name of the holiday celebration in question...but, I take your meaning, regardless, Koma....and, yes, quite true.

P.P.S. No prob, Caly...I live about 3 blocks from where all that shit went down. :)

Chicago Police Re-enactment based on forensic evidence:
http://www.mysterynet.com/images/mn/massacre.photo.jpg

Forensic evidence: ;)
http://www.carpenoctem.tv/img/massacre.jpg

More Forensic evidence:
http://www.mobsters.8m.com/valentine.jpg

The two rival bosses, Capone and Moran (L-R):
http://img.infoplease.com/images/home/caponebugs.jpg

[Mr_Hollywood]

Originally posted by Hazekiah
In case you meant that first point literally, you should know that neither "I Want to Disappear" nor "Born Again" were actually played at Manson's show on Valentine's Day of '97. I promise. I was there. Trust me, I'd remember.

And once more, nowhere has Manson EVER said that "I Want to Disappear" was even allegedly recorded on the same day as "Born Again" and "Irresponsible Hate Anthem."

But, yes...clearly "Valentine's Day" correlates to the two songs "recorded" on that day. Good detective work. :P And don't forget "Sick City."



Yea, i never meant that as literally, i meant it as part of the triptych story. I hardly ever take account the actual REAL live recordings, though i think i should look into it more.

But yes, i did mean that the song Valentines Day correlated to the "Recorded Live" songs.

I guess i bought into the rumor that I Want To Disappear was also supposedly "Recorded Live on Valentines Day".

PS: Thanks (for the compliment on my detective work). I try. -__-

[Hazekiah]

Hah, heh...jus' messin' with you a bit. When I "stick my tongue out" it merely implies a good-natured ribbin'. :P It was worth it just to see you "squint" maliciously in yer post script...too cool. ;)

As for lookin' into the REAL "live on 2/14/'97" tracks, I'm still tryin' to get a good copy myself (EYG? Hello...hello?), but as for info on what all went down at the show, here's a great place to start. (http://www.mansonusa.com/council/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5271&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) :)

Which reminds me, might as well add "Deformography" to the list of tracks related to that fateful date.

So:

MANSON'S VALENTINE'S DAY-RELATED TRACKS

1. Irresponsible Hate Anthem
2. Deformography
3. Sick City
4. Born Again
5. Valentine's Day

And almost "The Nobodies AAG '05 Remix," depending on whether or not that german site blew the video premiere early, if that was actually THE new video and remix. Guess we'll see soon, eh? :)

[profane]

Haz, doesn't it get annoying explaining and shooting down false interpretations? Hah, I know it does for me :)

[SamuraiKoala32]

Originally posted by profane
Haz, doesn't it get annoying explaining and shooting down false interpretations? Hah, I know it does for me :)

dammit, man. why the hell would there be an interpretations an analysis section if it was already all figured out? how can you (and Haz for that matter) be 100% completley sure that you are totally correct and everyone else is completley wrong?

[controlledchaos]

Originally posted by Hazekiah
Hah, heh...jus' messin' with you a bit. When I "stick my tongue out" it merely implies a good-natured ribbin'. :P It was worth it just to see you "squint" maliciously in yer post script...too cool. ;)

As for lookin' into the REAL "live on 2/14/'97" tracks, I'm still tryin' to get a good copy myself (EYG? Hello...hello?), but as for info on what all went down at the show, here's a great place to start. (http://www.mansonusa.com/council/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5271&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) :)

Which reminds me, might as well add "Deformography" to the list of tracks related to that fateful date.

So:

MANSON'S VALENTINE'S DAY-RELATED TRACKS

1. Irresponsible Hate Anthem
2. Deformography
3. Sick City
4. Born Again
5. Valentine's Day

And almost "The Nobodies AAG '05 Remix," depending on whether or not that german site blew the video premiere early, if that was actually THE new video and remix. Guess we'll see soon, eh? :)

I have the 2/14/97 show available to put up on my server if you would like to get it. I also have the 2/19/97 Springfield show where they also perform Deformography and the "lounge" version of Mr. Superstar.

[alizarin_rose]

Originally posted by SamuraiKoala32
dammit, man. why the hell would there be an interpretations an analysis section if it was already all figured out? how can you (and Haz for that matter) be 100% completley sure that you are totally correct and everyone else is completley wrong?


Because Hudson knows everything:)

^_^

[Hazekiah]

Well, SamRam, I could be mistaken, but I think the "shooting down false interpretations" comment was directed more towards Grotesque-Dada's entry than the application of the Valentine's Day Massacre in relation to the Triptych. His was the only theory I really discounted in any way, after all.

I didn't even really feel the need to address the topic of the thread itself (its initial topic, that is)...there's really no compelling evidence in any of the Valentine's Day-related Manson tracks (or nonrelated tracks, for that matter), or in what we've seen of Chapter 10 from "Holy Wood" to suggest such a connection.

Which isn't to say it's entirely impossible, just that there's really no substantive argument to be made for the Valentine's Day angle of the Triptych including aspects of the mob slaying, at least not yet. Unless, of course, you consider that the Triptych deals with Kennedy, who had ties to the mob, and that there's a vague connection to the mob made outside of the Triptiych proper, in the case of the song "mOBSCENE" and its attendant MOBSTER'S street team/message board.

For me though, the St. Valentine connection, the holiday's love/hate dynamic, Manson's personal and esoteric connections to the date, and the implications of Chapter 10 are plenty to chew on...until something more meaningful pops up suggesting a connection to the Valentine's Day Massacre then the issue just seems like so much frivolity to me.

That being said...I don't mind so much, profane, no. Certain issues that have been beaten to death and disproven six ways from Sunday get on my nerves a bit when they keep rearing their heads, but otherwise I just try to look at it as a form of free writing, or a detective just throwing random ideas out there while trying to find his footing in a new case. Every once in a while even the most absurd notions might contain elements that ring true and end up sticking. That's how I try to view it, anyway...shit like that Triptych tracklisting crap really gets on my nerves to extreme degrees. :)


Originally posted by controlledchaos
I have the 2/14/97 show available to put up on my server if you would like to get it. I also have the 2/19/97 Springfield show where they also perform Deformography and the "lounge" version of Mr. Superstar.

Man, that would completely fuckin' kick ASS!!! Sorry...I didn't really come around this thread for awhile, so I'll have to hope the offer stands. If it does, we'll all owe you an immense debt of gratitude. With Valentine's Day comin' up, it sure would be cool as Hell to hear that bootleg...and I'm SUPER excited about hearing the Springfield show, too!! I knew both songs had been played again after their 2/14/97 debut (although I've never actually heard any other recordings), but I had no idea they'd done both songs together at other shows...too fuckin' cool. Some might say that cheapen's the gift for those of us at the Dayton show, but I'm just glad to have the opportunity to hear alternate performances of those two very special live tracks!! :)

P.S. I answered your PM too, btw.

[TRNQT]

Originally posted by Mr_Hollywood


I guess i bought into the rumor that I Want To Disappear was also supposedly "Recorded Live on Valentines Day".




That was predominently my "rumour" and it's implied not stated.

I plan on giving you all a Valentine's Day gift on The NACHTKABARETT also.

[Calypso]

*jumps up and down in a highly immaturish fashion*

Oh goodie! =)

[SamuraiKoala32]

Originally posted by TRNQT
That was predominently my "rumour" and it's implied not stated.

I plan on giving you all a Valentine's Day gift on The NACHTKABARETT also.

i'll be looking forward to it :)

[mOBSCENEsAINT]

Beautiful....time is ticking 'till tomorrow.

[the_nihilist]

Originally posted by SikofLife
There's lyrics in the song, "They remember this is Valentine's Day"

Is this a reference to The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre...

I personally intrepret it as the Valenties Day Massacre.

[MrMisanthropy]

i heard dave navarro on spread radio live say that valentine's day was about some stars in a love triangle of sorts and a baby that died before it was born or something with one of these stars? really tragic? and dark. anyone know about this?

[Stephen Bitch]

How does Deformography relate to Valentine's Day? I'm normally pretty good with this kind of thing, but I can't see the reference within the lyrics...?

[Hazekiah]

The first time "Deformography" was ever played live was nine years ago on 2/14/97 in Dayton, Ohio. Manson's introduction for the song was "This is my Valentine's Day gift for you...," or something to that effect.

I suppose its inclusion in the list of V-Day related tracks would've been more plainly understood if someone hadn't deleted the thread I linked to earlier, in which I reviewed the show.

>:-[

[redtastesweet]

Valentine's Day. Missi, aborts marilyn manson's first child. Valentines Day, the celebration of an individual who lives in Holywood. Valentines Day the day that the March issue of Vogue is released. and nothing more.

[bjornwad]

Originally posted by redtastesweet
Missi, aborts marilyn manson's first child. your choice of words abdicates manson of his responsibility in the matter

[jester]

Originally posted by Hazekiah
The first time "Deformography" was ever played live was nine years ago on 2/14/97 in Dayton, Ohio. Manson's introduction for the song was "This is my Valentine's Day gift for you...," or something to that effect.


>:-[

do you think he just said that as he was just playing that song live for that crowd? I dont think i can take that song and branch it with the others.

[Insect]

I always wondered about Manson's fascination with Valentine's Day. Very good ideas.