I doubt anyone will listen to this, but here it is anyway

[TERROJA]

http://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/audiomartini_7Dec05.mp3

[adamsrib]

Thanks. I'm a big fan of Shermer.

[JRAWKER]

You're right. It's absurdly long. + it's just the same old garbage.

[TERROJA]

Originally posted by JRAWKER
You're right. It's absurdly long. + it's just the same old garbage.

It's actually not, but you'd have to actually sit through it to find that out.

[TERROJA]

Originally posted by adamsrib
Thanks. I'm a big fan of Shermer.

Me too. I've had a subscription to "Skeptic" for a while now.

[JRAWKER]

Nevertheless, it should be noted, I'm still listening to it.

[adamsrib]

I like Shermer's point that despite intelligent design's attempt to masquerade as science, it can't be science because it defies naturalism. As soon as something unknown or "paranormal" is discovered, it becomes integrated into the realm of science. There is no paranormal phenomena, only that which has yet to be discovered.

[TERROJA]

I'd like to see a scientist use the complexity of nature as evidence against God. The nueron-connections and computational abilities of a being that could create and maintain the entire universe would have to be ridiculously complex. I've never understood why the universe itself must be explained by a creator, but the creator--who would have to be almost more complex than the universe itself--requires no explanation whatsoever.

I like Shermer's point that despite intelligent design's attempt to masquerade as science, it can't be science because it defies naturalism. As soon as something unknown or "paranormal" is discovered, it becomes integrated into the realm of science. There is no paranormal phenomena, only that which has yet to be discovered.

And even if a "creator" were discovered, said creator's own origins would have to be explored.

[mr feeny]

have yall read the book "imagining the 10th dimension"?

http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash.php

pretty good read