What was Marilyn Manson's Biggest/Worst Mistake?

[Rabbelrauser]

I think it was gODHEAD.

[Zimzum69]

DMX(the Omen) and thats all i can think of right now.

[angelsephiroth]

Conspiring those Columbine kids to shoot up their school.

[Rabbelrauser]

Originally posted by Zimzum69
DMX(the Omen) and thats all i can think of right now.

Oh shit! I forgot about that one!

But I still think gODHEAD was worse.

[Calculations]

Wait. Could someone explain to me why gODHEAD is a mistake by manson?

[ElgantlyGrotesk]

throwing out j5 for me.

[Kalika]

not taking naps has been Manson's biggest mistake so far......many of his onstage temper tantrums could have been alleviated had he done so.

[ihtia0]

Taking his ribs out... he'll have horrid posture when he's old.

[Calculations]

Originally posted by ihtia0
Taking his ribs out... he'll have horrid posture when he's old.

How do you know that Manson isn't really black(Like MJ)?


You can't take a rib from a black man!

[Homeostasis]

Judging by this thread...
I'd say his biggest mistake was being so good as to have fans...

[ihtia0]

Realistically though, I think that releasing 'Lest We Forget' was quite a mistake.

[vht]

getting rid of daisy

technically he quit, but only because manson pretty much forced him to do so.

[Calculations]

Originally posted by Homeostasis
Judging by this thread...
I'd say his biggest mistake was being so good as to have fans...

Man, what is your problem with Manson fans?

And your sig is bullshit. The internet-arguing line has been made a million times, you are not anywhere near being the original poster.

[angelsephiroth]

Originally posted by Calculations
You can't take a rib from a black man!

But you can take one from adam!

*ba dum dum tish!*

[Cyclops_Girl]

^ LOL!

[SpiderInMyHeart]

That time he took a whole bag of puppies to a show and decided he wasn't gonna play till the crowd ripped all their heads off, that was kinda bad. Letting Twiggy and 5 go are worse though.

[princessomega]

I think his biggest mistake would be letting the drugs fuck up his career! I keep wishing for something great to turn around with Manson, but then I read shit like he's gonna turn his wine celler into an opium den? WTF? I don't even understand half of what he rabbles on about anymore. And frnakly I am beinging to wonder if I really care.

[Knave Murdok]

letting go of twiggy and john5

[herdoktor15]

I would have to say the DMX was the worst thing mansons done so far. WHATS SO BAD ABOUT REPLACEING WINE WIH OPIUM!?!

[filicide]

Originally posted by ihtia0
Realistically though, I think that releasing 'Lest We Forget' was quite a mistake. You hit the nail on the head.

[profane]

^ Agreed there Alex.

[Damian]

The following:

-Personal Jesus
-Mind of a Lunatic
-Tainted Love
-Highway to Hell
-The KKK Took my Baby Away
-Get my Rocks Off
-Personal Jesus
-Surrender
-The Way I Am Remix
-Linkin Park remix
-The Nobodies (AAG single)
-Party Monster
-ALL GAoG remixes
-Getting that HORRID website
-Not putting Mommy Dear on a single
-Personal Jesus
-Letting good talent go to such waste (himself and bandmates)

[angelsephiroth]

^ I take it Personal Jesus isn't your favorite track, eh ;-)

[Tigger]

Originally posted by ihtia0
Realistically though, I think that releasing 'Lest We Forget' was quite a mistake.

I'll have to disagree. I mean, if we are to believe Marilyn Manson than putting together this "best of" album is what ironically saved him and made him want to continue to make music. Because, if you remember -- he fell into another "hole" so like the (s)AINT video and Doppelherz before it, LEST WE FORGET helped Manson get through his depression.

[Shinya]

I'm appreciative of Lest We Forget. I really like the newly remastered Tourniquet on it. It also allowed me to get Tainted Love without having to buy the single. LHROOH available on an official Marilyn Manson release (from the band and Interscope) for the first time ever. And if it wasn't for LWF, we wouldn't have our video collection DVD.

Worst mistake? That's tough. I can't choose just one. In no particular order:

1. Associating and collaborating with DMX and Eminem. Especially going so far as to perform live with Eminem.

2. Letting Daisy go.

3. Letting go/firing Zim. What could Zim have done for the Holy Wood album? We'll never know...

4. Letting Twiggy go.

[H_Lektronika]

What's the big deal about people collaborating with rappers?

[Knave Murdok]

yeah, I feel like the only guy here who enjoys a good rap song every now and then

[normawarner]

what the hell are all of crazy how can yall be so disloyal to manson he is a god he makes no mistakea.....and you who the fuck are you one winged angel get the hell off this damn site you know what your the damn hemmoroid and he did not conspire anyone to blow up their school. Manson said that if he knew who those kids were he would talk to them because that is what no one else did. and who ever thinks manson took out his ribs is not true you dumbass he explains it clearly in his book THE LONG HARD ROAD OUT OF HELL how that rumor got started.................
and by the way one wing. sephiroth sux ass in final fantasies.............................bitches

[mofo4343]

the person above me is a big LOSER!!!! and a phony at that you hear me a PHONY!!!

[mofo4343]

i agree with normawarner

[Mercury SS]

Originally posted by normawarner
what the hell are all of crazy how can yall be so disloyal to manson he is a god he makes no mistakea.....and you who the fuck are you one winged angel get the hell off this damn site you know what your the damn hemmoroid and he did not conspire anyone to blow up their school. Manson said that if he knew who those kids were he would talk to them because that is what no one else did. and who ever thinks manson took out his ribs is not true you dumbass he explains it clearly in his book THE LONG HARD ROAD OUT OF HELL how that rumor got started.................
and by the way one wing. sephiroth sux ass in final fantasies.............................bitches

Originally posted by mofo4343
the person above me is a big LOSER!!!! and a phony at that you hear me a PHONY!!!

Originally posted by mofo4343
The person above the person above me!!!

Grow up, child. Seriously, it's bad enough that you've made two accounts, and now you're trying to be funny by being sarcastic? And if you were serious, then I think you're one of them outcasts that all the other children pick on, and I think you deserve it since, judging from your "intelligent" posts, you're a very insecure person, possibly a "cry-baby"... So, go cry in your corner...

*waits for moron to reply*

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Manson's worst mistake was obviously the departure of John5...

['O'wen_God]

Originally posted by normawarner
what the hell are all of crazy how can yall be so disloyal to manson he is a god he makes no mistakea.....and you who the fuck are you one winged angel get the hell off this damn site you know what your the damn hemmoroid and he did not conspire anyone to blow up their school. Manson said that if he knew who those kids were he would talk to them because that is what no one else did. and who ever thinks manson took out his ribs is not true you dumbass he explains it clearly in his book THE LONG HARD ROAD OUT OF HELL how that rumor got started.................
and by the way one wing. sephiroth sux ass in final fantasies.............................bitches

Calm down there skipper. Those were jokes. And what do you mean "...he is a god he makes no mistakea..."? He is not a god, he is his own god. There is a difference. Now why don't you go be your own god as well instead of blindly following someone, even if that someone is as wonderful as Manson. He makes no mistakes? I find that hilarious. Everyone makes mistakes. You sound like one of those christians who think that their pastor/priest is never wrong, on the grounds that he is a pastor/priest. Manson is a genius, but geniuses don't necessarily know everything. Albert Einstien (sp?) couldn't even tie his own shoe, and yet he found the equation that made the atom bomb possible. You see?

I'll leave you with a quote from Marilyn Manson himself:

"I never said to be like me. I said to be yourself and make a difference."

[Charles Monroe]

John 5..

It was better for John but bad for MM

[Mia Wallace]

Originally posted by Damian

-Letting good talent go to such waste (himself and bandmates)

Twiggy went on his on terms, but Manson shoulda begged for him back. Kicking John 5, definately.

*sniff*

[koolboee cdmo87]

Damn, this is a tough one. There's been so many the past few years!

Well, I'll go with what started it all. The execution of Holy Wood. A few songs on the album should've remained how they are... namely, I'd say "Godeatgod", "Target Audience", "In the Shadow of the Valley of Death", "Lamb of God"... hmm. Others shouldn't have been so vague, the songs shouldn't have been so repetitive... mainly, the music should've taken the front seat!! Since then, MM has been WAY too concentrated on the image, which has burned out really badly. Everything has gone downhill since then.

Then he collaborated with MM and looked like a fool. Then the uncaring of the music caused the loss of Twiggy. And then he fired John. And then out came LWF and "Personal Jesus." Just a lot of bad.

[Fox Mulder]

Originally posted by Knave Murdok
letting go of twiggy and john5

[Jivril]

Originally posted by Charles Monroe
John 5..

It was better for John but bad for MM

[koba]

I think not making three studio-paid videos from GAOG was a mistake.

Couldn't MM have made the Asia video after he got three free from the record company?

...but that's all. He's done a good job so far and he gets better

[Vallerry]

The list of mistakes
1) Realeasin Portrait in 1994 in stead of 1993 (ok this was actualy his fault it was the guy who mixed the album and got fired by Trent )
2) Including My Monkey, Dogma, Organ Grinder and Cyclops because these songs kind of suck when it comes to comparing them to songs like Thrift, Filth, Suicide Snowman, Scardy Cat and Lucy in the Sky with Daemons.
3) Smells Like Children . I mean the phone conversations on it suck.
4) Delaying TGAOG. In staed of releasing it in 2002 as it was planned he waited for 1 year.
5) Doing so many drugs that fuck up his mind.
6) Not being honest when it comes to changing band members.

That's almost all.

[Panzer]

Fear the horrible tour AGAINST ALL GODS

[Dope Cat]

-The Twiggy leaving Manson situation
-The whole Golden Age Of Grotesque era
-And the last nail in the coffin was the firing of John5

Everything after that is one big mess.

[Homeostasis]

Didn't John5 leave for personal reasons though...
I remember reading something like his father and some other family members died during TGAOG and Burlesk Grotesk... so he left to deal with that.

[The King]

The Golden Age of Grotesque

[Damian]

John was fired for working on music for outside bands (avril, shina twain) while he was in Manson. It was a breech of contract and nothing more. What ever vertigo or what not is just an excuse to get the focus on what happened.

[Charles Monroe]

Originally posted by Damian
John was fired for working on music for outside bands (avril, shina twain)

hehe I can't blame manson for that :P


But seriously, no one really knows what's the deal between those two.. There are so many scenario's.

[sinister ninja]

Originally posted by Dope Cat
-The Twiggy leaving Manson situation
-The whole Golden Age Of Grotesque era
-And the last nail in the coffin was the firing of John5

Everything after that is one big mess.

Agreed.

[JamesFranco]

the repetitiveness of Holy Wood.

letting Dita warp his mind into burlesque.

GAOG.

making movies, delaying novels, not keeping his promises on music.

being a media whore when he used to make fun of people like that.

[ihtia0]

Originally posted by Tigger
I'll have to disagree. I mean, if we are to believe Marilyn Manson than putting together this "best of" album is what ironically saved him and made him want to continue to make music. Because, if you remember -- he fell into another "hole" so like the (s)AINT video and Doppelherz before it, LEST WE FORGET helped Manson get through his depression.

I'm glad that he got out of his "hole" - but then I'm sure there were other ways out than releasing a disorganized smack-together of power-chord singles.

[ADingoAteMyBaby]

Not making more of an effort to keep talented bandmates "on-board". If someone wants to leave the band, that's their deal. But when it comes to someone talented like John, and completely loved by the fans, like Twiggy I would have done my hardest to make it worth their while to stick it out. I mean, surely the man could have worked out a deal with either one of them.

It is his band though, and it is his decision, but I think it's gonna lose him a lot of money in the long run.

The LWF album wasn't nessecarily a bad thing, just a bad time. It's almost like every artist who is expected to burn out releases a "best of" album. It's almost like saying "well, we aren't gonna sell anymore records after this, lets just make our last couple of bucks while we can".

I think a big problem also was the fall of the official BBS. Especially after Stark took over. It was always nice to have a message from Manson every once in a while during the MA era, even when that stopped, all the drama was fun and entertaining. It was a good source of gossip too. I like the MMUSA forums, although it sucks because I don't know anyone here : ) Gotta work my way up the ropes I suppose.......I just miss all of that crap.


There are a lot of things he's fucked up, but a lot of things he's done right too. I guess you've gotta take the good with the bad.

[pwcca]

Tainted Love
Personal Jesus
Getting rid of John 5
Making his tours start to look dull and boring and scripted (AAG & GB)

[newo]

Hiring John 5

[N51]

I think having a reasonable ternover of band members has helped to keep the music fresh and origional. Sure, I like what all those members did, but that's not to say they should hang around forever.

I think his biggest mistake has been not letting is audio and visual output speak for itself. It seems his shameless over hyping has damaged the reception of his records, and limited his standing in the rock music community.

[Rx]

having this photo taken...........WTF!

http://www.planetsimpson.com/archives/media/Marilyn%20Manson%20-%20SM.JPG

[ihtia0]

Originally posted by vht
getting rid of daisy

Nearly all my favourite Manson stuff has come from the time Daisy was still a member. Nonetheless, I don't think the band could've progressed and evolved much further without that change seeing as to how well they worked together near the end of Daisy's time there. The collective talents of Zim Zum and John 5 are easily superior to Daisy and although I hold a good respect for Daisy, I think that his parting was required and occured right when it needed to.

[incostantemoto]

Originally posted by Rx
having this photo taken...........WTF!

http://www.planetsimpson.com/archives/media/Marilyn%20Manson%20-%20SM.JPG


LOL SERIOUSLY WTF! That.. wow. HAHAHHAAHAHHA. Very different. I don't thikn that was his biggest mistake, though ;)

I think they've all been pretty well fleshed out.. I think his biggest mistake was retreating after MA and secluding himself from the world for months before Holy Wood. I think that was pretty much the beginning of the suckiness and the beginning of the downward descent.

[Rabbelrauser]

I wish I hadn't started this thread. It's really depressing.

[mandyko13]

to get a fan like yourself

[incostantemoto]

Originally posted by Rabbelrauser
I wish I hadn't started this thread. It's really depressing.

Hindsight is always 20/20, mon ami.

Besides, what's depressing about it? Most people have accepted the fact that Manson = mostly suck now.

[Rabbelrauser]

That's what's so depressing. It's like witnessing a slow death, I guess. Like the day the music died.

[TimothySkold6]

Off the top of my head all I can think of is Dita Von Teese.

[Rabbelrauser]

Dude, fuck you. She is hot and she is a good person. That Rose was a real bitch.

[TimothySkold6]

Originally posted by Rabbelrauser
Dude, fuck you. She is hot and she is a good person. That Rose was a real bitch.

How do you know she's a good person? It seems like she's done nothing but manipulate Manson. I don't like her, I don't think I ever will.

Ya, Rose was a bitch, but that has nothing to do with anything I said.

The best person for Manson (that he's had a long lasting relationship with) is Missi Romero.

[Rabbelrauser]

No she wasn't! She was a fucking drug addict and a thief. And genetic trash.

[R3FL3CT1NG_G0D]

biggest mistake

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I'm gunna have to say Personal Jesus...

Its not 'bad' persay, it just lacks the depth and character that Manson has used so greatly throughout his career...

[Skaboom]

His whole personal life has been a fuck-up

[Dopehat]

Originally posted by vht
getting rid of daisy

technically he quit, but only because manson pretty much forced him to do so.

bingo

[deftones_chino]

Cutting his hair short

[JOHNISTHEMAN208]

Originally posted by deftones_chino
Cutting his hair short

Yeah his new hairstyle sucks ass .. It was the coolest during the Holy Wood and GAOG eras ..

[deftones_chino]

Or ACSS

[JOHNISTHEMAN208]

Originally posted by deftones_chino
Or ACSS

Yeah ACSS hair was cool too, since it's basically the same as during the Holy Wood era ..

[Coma Alpha]

I've never heard a gODHEAD song, but I would have to say that fucking haircut and the GAOG...............he looks like a the most extreme faggot with that haircut. Moreso than with the boobsuit even.

[TimothySkold6]

Originally posted by Rabbelrauser
No she wasn't! She was a fucking drug addict and a thief. And genetic trash.

But unlike Dita she never tried to gain status by being with him.

[Damian]

Dita might of had a cult following, but nothing compared to once she hooked up with Dita.
I don't think Dita or Rose are better or worse than the other. But Manson conforms to which ever woman he's dating. Rose was all Hollywood (MA) and Dita was all about the berlesk (GAoG).

[SignsFromDamien]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.

[Mr-Po-Go]

I'd say painting on a balaclava, if it wasn't for the unlikely happening of it getting him involved with Helnwein.

http://www.mansonusa.com/photo/promo/03-04/30.jpg

[jester]

i could care less wha manson does, it his life and shit. as long the music is still good, so i have to say goag and lwf are the only mistakes he has made. oh and having a website thats completly shit.

[Lucky7]

why isn't the question reversed? Why does it always have to be negative shit here. What has he done GREAT is what we should be discussing.

[JamesFranco]

Originally posted by Lucky7
why isn't the question reversed? Why does it always have to be negative shit here. What has he done GREAT is what we should be discussing.

we all know what he's done great.

[deftones_chino]

Originally posted by jester
oh and having a website thats completly shit.



LoL

[kundun5]

Originally posted by jester
i could care less wha manson does, it his life and shit. as long the music is still good, so i have to say goag and lwf are the only mistakes he has made. oh and having a website thats completly shit. The books, films, artists, writers, philosophers, movements, theatre companies, and underground societies mentioned in GAOG alone should have you dolts astonished by one mans superior knowledge and intellect.

If i were manson I wouldn't bother to make music any longer either. It's not like any of you are ready or prepared to be entertained.


" YOU KILLED ART" You fucking ornery WALMART NEANDERTHALS!

[Rabbelrauser]

Originally posted by kundun5
The books, films, artists, writers, philosophers, movements, theatre companies, and underground societies mentioned in GAOG alone should have you dolts astonished by one mans superior knowledge and intellect.

If i were manson I wouldn't bother to make music any longer either. It's not like any of you are ready or prepared to be entertained.


" YOU KILLED ART" You fucking ornery WALMART NEANDERTHALS!
I was able to notice them.

[koolboee cdmo87]

Originally posted by kundun5
The books, films, artists, writers, philosophers, movements, theatre companies, and underground societies mentioned in GAOG alone should have you dolts astonished by one mans superior knowledge and intellect.
Referencing only goes so far.

[Damian]

NEWS FLASH: A good musician is not measured by how well his music and lyrics are written, but instead of how many historical, artistic, and political references he can cram into an album!

[TERROJA]

Originally posted by Damian
NEWS FLASH: A good musician is not measured by how well his music and lyrics are written, but instead of how many historical, artistic, and political references he can cram into an album!

See. You DO understand.

[Damian]

Originally posted by TERROJA
See. You DO understand.
My eyes have been opened!
Can I get a, hallelujah?!

[TERROJA]

HALLELUJAH! (misprounounced with a hard J)

[David Alexander]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.
Yes

[kundun5]

Originally posted by Damian
NEWS FLASH: A good musician is not measured by how well his music and lyrics are written, but instead of how many historical, artistic, and political references he can cram into an album! Using a "mixed media" equivalent approach at writing /delivering lyrics can be misconstrued as "cramming" by an imbecile, I guess.

STFU, you ordinarily stupid CUNT!

[ariochprime]

Nearly all my favourite Manson stuff has come from the time Daisy was still a member. Nonetheless, I don't think the band could've progressed and evolved much further without that change seeing as to how well they worked together near the end of Daisy's time there. The collective talents of Zim Zum and John 5 are easily superior to Daisy and although I hold a good respect for Daisy, I think that his parting was required and occured right when it needed to.

You CAN'T be a guitarist....if you listen to Daisy's style and the way you can instantly switch from powerchords to harmonics to slides and back is amazing....and truely unique...

The music has suffered ever since he was forced out and it was the begining of the downward spiral....before Daisy left Marilyn Manson was some of the most original music out there...

[Damian]

Originally posted by ariochprime
You CAN'T be a guitarist....if you listen to Daisy's style and the way you can instantly switch from powerchords to harmonics to slides and back is amazing....and truely unique...

The music has suffered ever since he was forced out and it was the begining of the downward spiral....before Daisy left Marilyn Manson was some of the most original music out there...

I'm a guitaist and while I do agree the sound Daisy had was original, but defently not something Manson could have grown into. Zim and John helped expand Manson into what he is today, which is a by-far more complicated beast.

[ariochprime]

I think we may both be influenced by different eras of Mansons music....i can see where you're coming from tho...

"While i disagree with what you say, I'll defend to the death you're right to say it"

[cyborg assassin]

firing john 5

using covers to push his career at the expense of his own music. its a shame that more of manson's covers are played in clubs than songs he actually wrote

needs a new image, the whole burlesque thing was great in in 2002/2003, no so much anymore.

also, for a Nietzschian ubermensch, he allows his women to have excessive control/influence over him.

oh yeh, the official website sucks at the moment.

[Vallerry]

Manson's biggest mistake is delaying music , i mean TGAOG should have been released in 2002 and in 2004 he should have released another album. And another thing, the website sucks big time.He should spend more time trying to communicate with fans not narcotics.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by Vallerry
Manson's biggest mistake is delaying music , i mean TGAOG should have been released in 2002 and in 2004 he should have released another album. And another thing, the website sucks big time.He should spend more time trying to communicate with fans not narcotics. When he stopped having Trent Reznor produce his music.

[Torquemada]

In my opinion, his biggest mistake was probably putting art and fashion over his music. Yes, I understand what he's trying to do and I appreciate it; but he is first and foremost a musician, and he should be working his artistic persuits around his music, not the other way around. Even with Mechanical Animals, the whole glam imagry was based around the music. It seems that he's slowly becoming everything he set out to parody with that album-- let us hope that he can reverse that trend.

[mechanicl.bride]

getting rid of john 5

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by Mr-Po-Go
http://www.mansonusa.com/photo/promo/03-04/30.jpg Holy shit, I didn't know Manson knew Ninjitsu!

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by Tigger
I'll have to disagree. I mean, if we are to believe Marilyn Manson than putting together this "best of" album is what ironically saved him and made him want to continue to make music. Because, if you remember -- he fell into another "hole" so like the (s)AINT video and Doppelherz before it, LEST WE FORGET helped Manson get through his depression. I heard about his depression. He' seems to be doing better now and I'm glad. He's alot happier then he was. Thank god he didn't kill himself cause he would've let his fans down. That would've have been his biggest mistake.

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
When he stopped having Trent Reznor produce his music. He had Trent Reznor produce his music?

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by mamama
2 simple mistakes:
1) hiring ginger
2) not firing ginger sooner Leave Ginger alone, He's a great drummer. Shoot, If I had my own band,I beg him to play drums.

[wingen0cide]

are you retarded? Reznor produced Portrait, SLC and Antichrist!
btw, why dont you edit your previous post instead of doing 2 different ones? you fuckin idiot..

Oh yeah.. and the biggest mistake was losing Twigs.

[GDP]

I'm shocked no one's mentioned his brief forray in the NFL.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by wingen0cide
are you retarded? Reznor produced Portrait, SLC and Antichrist!
btw, why dont you edit your previous post instead of doing 2 different ones? you fuckin idiot..

Oh yeah.. and the biggest mistake was losing Twigs. calm down

[normawarner]

I have to really disagree with timothyskold I do not think Dita Von Teese was a mistake. He loves her and you can not help who you fall in love with. But I do think a big mistake was Twiggy leaving the band although it wasn't Manson's fault

[normawarner]

Originally posted by TimothySkold6
Off the top of my head all I can think of is Dita Von Teese.


I have to really disagree, Dita Von Teese was not a mistake. He loves her and you can not help who you fall in love with. But I do think a big mistake was Twiggy leaving the band although it wasn't Manson's fault

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by normawarner
I have to really disagree with timothyskold I do not think Dita Von Teese was a mistake. He loves her and you can not help who you fall in love with. But I do think a big mistake was Twiggy leaving the band although it wasn't Manson's fault He may not be able to choose who he falls in love with, but he can sure as hell choose how he treats his single friends afterwards. From what I hear, he treated them like shit.

[Skaboom]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
He may not be able to choose who he falls in love with, but he can sure as hell choose how he treats his single friends afterwards. From what I hear, he treated them like shit. Unfortunately,this is very true

[kundun5]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
When he stopped having Trent Reznor produce his music. You want manson to sound anything like the hackneyed boredom that was "With teeth"?

NIN hasn't been good for a decade, I'd say manson parted ways with Trent at the optimum time.

Twiggy's song writing skills were also becoming increasingly trite.

What has Twiggy done since leaving Manson??? NADA,NOTHING,NIL!

[cyborg assassin]

Originally posted by normawarner
I have to really disagree, Dita Von Teese was not a mistake. He loves her and you can not help who you fall in love with. But I do think a big mistake was Twiggy leaving the band although it wasn't Manson's fault

manson professed to beng like a Nietzschian ubermensch type of person, so frankly if he ate his words he WOULD be able to control who he falls in love with (triumph of the will etc etc).

[kundun5]

Originally posted by cyborg assassin
manson professed to beng like a Nietzschian ubermensch type of person, so frankly if he ate his words he WOULD be able to control who he falls in love with (triumph of the will etc etc). Is that why he wrote "Tourniquet"?

[Skaboom]

Originally posted by kundun5

Twiggy's song writing skills were also becoming increasingly trite.

What has Twiggy done since leaving Manson??? NADA,NOTHING,NIL! Aw come on....................

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by kundun5
You want manson to sound anything like the hackneyed boredom that was "With teeth"?

NIN hasn't been good for a decade, I'd say manson parted ways with Trent at the optimum time.

Twiggy's song writing skills were also becoming increasingly trite.

What has Twiggy done since leaving Manson??? NADA,NOTHING,NIL! Music Production != Music Creation

Trent Reznor is a master at producing albums.

[Nosferatu]

not putting the following videos on the American version of "Lest We Forget": "(s)aint", "personal jesus", "astonishing panorama of the end times", "tainted love", "doppleherz" or "rock is dead (the version with clips from The Matrix)"

[ariochprime]

What has Twiggy done since leaving Manson??? NADA,NOTHING,NIL!

Except those little bands A Perfect Circle, Nine Inch Nails, and Fuel....

Twiggy wrote all the songs you guys love from ACSS - Holywood, his absence is MORE than evident on TGAOG, i can't even listen to manson without his songwriting....post Portrait, as daisy/gidget wrote that....

Jeordie is more than taken care of with NIN and APC, its badass to see some other bands with amazing talent recognize him as the songwriter he is....too bad manson couldn't

Music Production != Music Creation

Trent Reznor is a master at producing albums.


Agreed...its almost fitting Trent makes more money of those three albums than manson does as producers dont have to pay back recoopable expenses of recording through mechanical royalities withholdings...

[cyborg assassin]

Originally posted by Nosferatu
not putting the following videos on the American version of "Lest We Forget": "(s)aint", "personal jesus", "astonishing panorama of the end times", "tainted love", "doppleherz" or "rock is dead (the version with clips from The Matrix)"

they would have had problems with astonishing panorama, tainted love and the matrix clip stuff from rock is dead because of the copyrighted material.

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by wingen0cide
are you retarded? Reznor produced Portrait, SLC and Antichrist!
btw, why dont you edit your previous post instead of doing 2 different ones? you fuckin idiot..

Oh yeah.. and the biggest mistake was losing Twigs. Whatever.

[kundun5]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
Music Production != Music Creation

Trent Reznor is a master at producing albums. If he's such a master, what has happened to the quality of his own albums?

WTF is WITH-UH TEETH-UH??? You must be a desperate NIN fan.

That album is beneath mediocre.

[kundun5]

Except those little bands A Perfect Circle, Nine Inch Nails, and Fuel.... Fuel??? Twiggy has done nothing that even comes close to what MM is and was.

Being a touring musician for APC and NIN does not defend his songwriting capabilities.

[Montague]

ruining Goth.

[ariochprime]

Fuel??? Twiggy has done nothing that even comes close to what MM is and was.

Being a touring musician for APC and NIN does not defend his songwriting capabilities.


Yes Fuel, along with Smashing Pumpkins/ APC guitarist, which is how i think the APC hook-up came along...but im pretty sure it was just for a tour...

I'll agree he hasnt done anything that is as badass as what he did in manson, but Maynard AND trent (disregaurding the problems i have with with teeth) are AMAZING song writers, neither of them (especially trent) would hire on Jeordie if they didn't believe in his ability....Jeordie is in two of the biggest bands in rock today....and mansons not even on the guest list....

What he did with manson (FOR manson really) is amazing and got him where he is, but hes still on the way up....which is more than i can say for manson.....

And for the record....With Teeth can not COMPARE with the catastrophic train wreck that was TGAOG.....not even CLOSE....its become very obvious just how much of mansons back catalog was created by Jeordie, and how much his songwriting pales in comparison without him....

[kundun5]

And for the record....With Teeth can not COMPARE with the catastrophic train wreck that was TGAOG.....not even CLOSE....its become very obvious just how much of mansons back catalog was created by Jeordie, and how much his songwriting pales in comparison without him....


Again, when jeordie puts out a whole album comparable to anything that's equal to what was put out during his tenure in MM, then you'll have a point.

Until then it's all speculation.

If twiggy was such a prolific songwriter, whose writing skills were somehow constrained by being in MM, then he'd be infecting the world with his skillz by now. He hasn't,PERIOD!

TGAOG actually has something that anyone with half a brain could sink their teeth into. "With Teeth" is bland, generic, and the lyrics have the impact of being hit by a feather.

One can get lost in the chaos that is GAOG, if one understands its unique and sometimes surreptitious message.

WITH-UH TEETH-UH has no bite!

[kundun5]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
He may not be able to choose who he falls in love with, but he can sure as hell choose how he treats his single friends afterwards. From what I hear, he treated them like shit. He's a rockstar, not an ordinary throwaway, like you...OBVIOUSLY.

What the fuck do you want him to be a boyscout?

Who cares what he does in his personal life? damn you're wholly dull.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally posted by kundun5
He's a rockstar, not an ordinary throwaway, like you...OBVIOUSLY.

What the fuck do you want him to be a boyscout?

Who cares what he does in his personal life? damn you're wholly dull. I can't tell if you're being facetious or not, so I'm just gonna stand over here.

--->

[cyborg assassin]

Originally posted by kundun5
He's a rockstar, not an ordinary throwaway, like you...OBVIOUSLY.

What the fuck do you want him to be a boyscout?

Who cares what he does in his personal life? damn you're wholly dull.

you must care so much otherwise you'd have not bothered replying to that post.

[ariochprime]

Again, when jeordie puts out a whole album comparable to anything that's equal to what was put out during his tenure in MM, then you'll have a point.

Until then it's all speculation.

If twiggy was such a prolific songwriter, whose writing skills were somehow constrained by being in MM, then he'd be infecting the world with his skillz by now. He hasn't,PERIOD!

TGAOG actually has something that anyone with half a brain could sink their teeth into. "With Teeth" is bland, generic, and the lyrics have the impact of being hit by a feather.

One can get lost in the chaos that is GAOG, if one understands its unique and sometimes surreptitious message.

WITH-UH TEETH-UH has no bite!

Infecting the world with his "skillz"?, ya hes been in manson for 10 years or so, and out of the band for 1 is it? He's proven himself in Manson and will prove himself outside of Manson as well...my point was he permanantly joined both bands...unlike fuel...

And whats with all the bad Dental puns? "With Dentures"? How old are you?

[kundun5]

He didn't permanently join both bands, he's a touring musician. I believe he's completely done with APC(thank God).How is that permanent? Are you slow? He hasn't put anything out, plain and simple.

And my mention of all things teeth, when discussing NIN's latest offering, is merely allegorical.

[ariochprime]

Hes already written for one track on emotive...but it was a cover after all, and one track....

We will see in time who proves the more talented musician...

[kundun5]

We will see in time who proves the more talented musician...


This wasn't your original intent. Now you want me to wait and see?

[ariochprime]

Well, you're the one that needs further proof hes a valid independant musician, not I. Even his live work with each of the aformentioned bands is enough to prove to ME he was the driving force behind mansons music....

You're the one that needs further proof....but I'm a more musicially oriented person, i've always listened to manson for the MUSIC, not the shock or necessarily the ideals behind it....and consequently, im less devoted and inspired by mansons "genius" as you put it....especially these days...

[kundun5]

Well, you're the one that needs further proof hes a valid independant musician, not I. Even his live work with each of the aformentioned bands is enough to prove to ME he was the driving force behind mansons music....

You're blindly trivial...KUDOS!!!


How does playing someone else's music prove that he's a valid musician or the driving force behind manson's music?


but I'm a more musicially oriented person, i've always listened to manson for the MUSIC, not the shock or necessarily the ideals behind it....and consequently, im less devoted and inspired by mansons "genius" as you put it....especially these days... Your "copout" has a rather fetid aroma.

This too does not match your original criticism of his music... lyrics and image included.

[ariochprime]

He WROTE superstar-Holywood....that IS his original music...manson plays very little instrumentation and can't play guitar worth a shit....Lyrics/melody, ya manson adds his part, but twiggy owns that music....and gets mechanical royalities for it....

Between ALL that music that is his, and music he will write in other bands, he's proven himself....

To deny Jeordie his role in making Manson what he is, is truely blind....believe it or not, it was a BAND at one time...

[ariochprime]

Music Production != Music Creation

Trent Reznor is a master at producing albums.


you must care so much otherwise you'd have not bothered replying to that post.

Why am I the only one still here arguing with you is really the question, you obviously not a musician, i wouldn't expect you to understand...

*ignore list has been updated*

[kundun5]

and music he will write in other bands, he's proven himself....

Damn you're dumb!

[normawarner]

Originally posted by cyborg assassin
manson professed to beng like a Nietzschian ubermensch type of person, so frankly if he ate his words he WOULD be able to control who he falls in love with (triumph of the will etc etc).


well frankly my dear, what exactly are you trying to say? that dita and manson don't belong together or you can chose who you fall in love with.

[mofo4343]

fo sho

[normawarner]

Originally posted by Lucky7
why isn't the question reversed? Why does it always have to be negative shit here. What has he done GREAT is what we should be discussing.





word
i really can't can't think of anything because he has done so many amazing things i can't just name one but, what i can say is that he kicks aaaaaaaassssssssss.

[ariochprime]

i really can't can't think of anything because he has done so many amazing things i can't just name one but, what i can say is that he kicks aaaaaaaassssssssss


http://www.mansonusa.com/council/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24752

The mistakes thread is just much more popular....not surprisingly....

[kundun5]

Originally posted by ariochprime
http://www.mansonusa.com/council/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24752

The mistakes thread is just much more popular....not surprisingly.... because idiots like you believe that twiggy was the mastermind behind Marilyn Manson.

[BobReznor]

Originally posted by Patrick Bateman
http://home.earthlink.net/~john_ra/sig.gif

Nice sig Bateman.

[cyborg assassin]

Originally posted by normawarner
well frankly my dear, what exactly are you trying to say? that dita and manson don't belong together or you can chose who you fall in love with.

someone said he couldn't help but fall in love with dita, i replied that if mnanson was what he claimed he was, he wouldn'#t leave whom he falls i love with to mere fate.

[crack_nation]

Originally posted by cyborg assassin
someone said he couldn't help but fall in love with dita, i replied that if mnanson was what he claimed he was, he wouldn'#t leave whom he falls i love with to mere fate.

Life is just a series of actions that are left to fate, whether you like it or not.

[cyborg assassin]

Originally posted by crack_nation
Life is just a series of actions that are left to fate, whether you like it or not.

as machiavelli pointed out though, 'fate' is only unstoppable when one is ill-prepared for it. it is fate a swollen river will lead to flooding. however a swollen river can be made impotent if adequate defences to prevent/minimise flooding are out in place by man.

[Ed Gil]

Biggest Mistake: Releasing the shitty GAOG cd.

[ariochprime]

Biggest Mistake: Releasing the shitty GAOG cd.

Not the biggest...but it was pretty bad....

[VaudeVile]

Biggest mistakes.....ummmmm..
The Golden Age of Grotesque, Lest We Forget, Dita Von Teese, Tim Skold, Losing Twiggy and J5, Letting the image become more important than the music, Any covers after Sweet Dreams and Rock and Roll Nigger, Fuckin' up a friendship with Trent Reznor (Trent's to blame for that too, so keep your hair on!), all the drugs he let screw his brain up....

His biggest has to be letting Marilyn Manson completely take over Brian Warner. He goes on about being yourself yet he's destroyed who he really is. And hes even messing up his 'fake' Manson persona.


Oh dear.

[TimothySkold6]

Originally posted by VaudeVile
He goes on about being yourself yet he's destroyed who he really is.

How do you really know who he is? Do you know him personally? Or are you just a little upset prissy assed fan.

[HolyWood_Hermit]

the only...maybe not the biggest mistake was the i would call it HATE-Parade against Courtney during the Last Tour On Earth-Tour

[AliceInOz]

Originally posted by VaudeVile
Biggest mistakes.....ummmmm..
The Golden Age of Grotesque, Lest We Forget, Dita Von Teese, Tim Skold, Losing Twiggy and J5, Letting the image become more important than the music, Any covers after Sweet Dreams and Rock and Roll Nigger, Fuckin' up a friendship with Trent Reznor (Trent's to blame for that too, so keep your hair on!), all the drugs he let screw his brain up....

His biggest has to be letting Marilyn Manson completely take over Brian Warner. He goes on about being yourself yet he's destroyed who he really is. And hes even messing up his 'fake' Manson persona.


Oh dear.

[Kalika]

Not using this product - http://www1.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=118465&CategoryID=8558&LinkType=EverGreen&trackingCat=8558

[McSpade]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.

definitly, the BIGGEST!

[BloodofNothing]

John5 and Twiggy

[vht]

getting rid of 5 was the BEST decision he's made in a long time

[BloodofNothing]

I was much more pissed when Twiggy left then when john 5 did,
Twig was awesome.

[McSpade]

i'm not one of those people who are bitchin' around because J5 got kicked out! it's not my band!
but i think he was (still is) a great guitar player!
y you think it was the best thing he could do? @vht

and i like Skold more than twiggy i have to say...

[the_spooky_kid]

tainted love.

[vht]

Originally posted by McSpade
i'm not one of those people who are bitchin' around because J5 got kicked out! it's not my band!
but i think he was (still is) a great guitar player!
y you think it was the best thing he could do? @vht

John 5 is good on his solo cd, but in manson he sucked. Guitarwise he never did anything great with manson.

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by the_spooky_kid
tainted love. Why do you think Tainted Love his biggest mistake? Tainted Love is one of his best songs ever. He brought the dark side to the song and he sounds pissed off by the sound of his voice. I love the way he covered it. I love the video. That video is the reason I got into Manson.

[Panzer]

Originally posted by evilkiera
Why do you think Tainted Love his biggest mistake? Tainted Love is one of his best songs ever. He brought the dark side to the song and he sounds pissed off by the sound of his voice. I love the way he covered it. I love the video. That video is the reason I got into Manson.

:O

[Damian]

Originally posted by evilkiera
Why do you think Tainted Love his biggest mistake? Tainted Love is one of his best songs ever. He brought the dark side to the song and he sounds pissed off by the sound of his voice. I love the way he covered it. I love the video. That video is the reason I got into Manson.
^ That is why I hate Tainted Love. That, and it's not his song and once you've done as many covers as him, enough is enough. *laughs*

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by Damian
^ That is why I hate Tainted Love. That, and it's not his song and once you've done as many covers as him, enough is enough. *laughs* Manson isn't the only one who covered TL, I found different versions of it. I even found a spanish version of it. I doubt I can stand hearing Tainted Love in spanish.

[Shinya]

The Tainted Love video was another mistake. Manson looked and acted like a fucking retard in that video. Pogo in the bandana was pretty gay too. That was also the video that started the trend of having to rely on a bunch of attractive bitches showing some skin in all of the videos since (with the exception of the new Nobodies vid for obvious reasons). Before Manson never really did that, because he didn't need it. Watching the MTV Making Of made me hate the video even more. Thank God that song didn't do dick in the US.

[AliceInOz]

Originally posted by BloodofNothing
I was much more pissed when Twiggy left then when john 5 did,
Twig was awesome.

[the_nihilist]

The Golden Age of Grotesque and beyond.

[Retrovertigo]

Originally posted by Montague
ruining Goth.

I'd call that more of an incredible triumph than any sort of mistake. If only he had done a more thorough job. Some branches of the pasty retards still linger.

Anyway, I'd suggest his biggest stumble was bending down and kissing the ass of everything and everyone he braced himself against in Antichrist Superstar. His lazy reliance on 80's covers to pull in casual listeners and his tendancy now to write his lyrics from his girlfriend's journal are big too.

[TimTim_Anarchy]

remixing fight song (slipknot collaborations)

remixing the nobodies

pesonal jesus

TITNS filmclip

sAINT filmclip

booting twiggy
(& 5 sorta, but though at the same time on a different level i think the booting john 5 was sweet.. though he was a brilliant guitarist, n theyre best besides daisy, & mark fucking sucks, but it would have been AWESOME if they had kept twiggy & still got skold in the band TOGETHER... :P, Though i also obviously love skold, so yeah i guess ive adapted well to the way things have swayed... XD)

[viperhigh]

The "Tainted Love" video is, by far, Manson's lowest moment. There isn't any reason for that pile of shit to ever be shown again. My god, what was he thinking? I felt embarrassed, disgraced, and down right disrespected as a fan.

[the_nihilist]

From the outsiders view TGAOG put him simply at "goth" it labeled him. Holy Wood was artsy, im not saying TGAOG isnt artsy but from what most people see golden age is gawth :(

[TimothySkold6]

Originally posted by the_nihilist
From the outsiders view TGAOG put him simply at "goth" it labeled him. Holy Wood was artsy, im not saying TGAOG isnt artsy but from what most people see golden age is gawth :(

I don't think you quite know what "goth" is

[the_nihilist]

Originally posted by TimothySkold6
I don't think you quite know what "goth" is

I'm saying from the onlooker crowd, the uninfomed, I've heard it, if MM had pulled say.....something omega-esque he would never have been labeled "goth"

[AnjoKabalistico]

Originally posted by the_nihilist
I'm saying from the onlooker crowd, the uninfomed, I've heard it, if MM had pulled say.....something omega-esque he would never have been labeled "goth"

He was labeled "goth" since the ACSS days... (and probably even before that)

[ldew]

Getting rid of Twiggy. GAOG is crap compared to his previous albuns and the songs that had music written by Twiggy were always my favorites. What we have after he left is simplistic and repetitive.

[AliceInOz]

Getting rid of Twiggy. GAOG is crap compared to his previous albuns and the songs that had music written by Twiggy were always my favorites. What we have after he left is simplistic and repetitive.

Indeed...Twiggy made so much of the music that its entirely different without him....

[lindz]

Ya, Rose was a bitch, but that has nothing to do with anything I said,
The best person for Manson (that he's had a long lasting relationship with) is Missi Romero..


I think Missi was his soul mate. But like a normal guy does he fucked it up by not paying attention to her. At the same time without that happening we would have never had the full effect of it all.

I don't Hate Dita,but I do ponder why he wanted to kill himself while with her. The love they shared should have made him feel happy.

I do hate the Cameleon effect. Changing himself to go with the girl. Although some argue they are chossen to fit the puzzle.

Simply put, He has become a Snob. THe whole I'm an artist I suffer for my work style of snob.
He wouldn't be anything without all of Us,I think he forgets that sometimes.
At the end of the day,my life can go on with or without him.

Although I do so Miss the "old" days.

[nolifesuperstar]

Tainted love was one of his biggest mistakes, he seriously lowered himself for that video. The song wasn't that bad, the video was what killed it. It just came off cheeky and corny, and the manson we all know and love is most def not cheeky and corny, not since antichrist superstar atleast.

I hate that twiggy is gone, i feel the music will suffer somewhat as a result.

I thought the golden age of grotesque was a mistake. I mean, damn. Manson made an album about absolutely nothing. He just rambled on about NOTHING.

[Prusias_Pt]

firing john 5 and the oficial website (it's so "stupid" and empty)

[Mothling]

Twiggys depatrure was a sad sad day for me. It hasn't been the same since.

[jester]

Originally posted by Shinya
The Tainted Love video was another mistake. Manson looked and acted like a fucking retard in that video. Pogo in the bandana was pretty gay too. That was also the video that started the trend of having to rely on a bunch of attractive bitches showing some skin in all of the videos since (with the exception of the new Nobodies vid for obvious reasons). Before Manson never really did that, because he didn't need it. Watching the MTV Making Of made me hate the video even more. Thank God that song didn't do dick in the US.

i dont think you got the point of the video.

[Damian]

Originally posted by Damian
The following:

-Personal Jesus
-Mind of a Lunatic
-Tainted Love
-Highway to Hell
-The KKK Took my Baby Away
-Get my Rocks Off
-Personal Jesus
-Surrender
-The Way I Am Remix
-Linkin Park remix
-The Nobodies (AAG single)
-Party Monster
-ALL GAoG remixes
-Getting that HORRID website
-Not putting Mommy Dear on a single
-Personal Jesus
-Letting good talent go to such waste (himself and bandmates)

[GunsOfBrixton]

- Jawbreaker
- The Last Tour On Earth CD & VHS
- Holy Wood
- Guns, God, and Government DVD
- Playing "Tainted Love" live
- Shortening "Antichrist Superstar" live
- Personal Jesus
- Firing John Lowery
- Adding Mark Chaussee
- The entire "Against All Gods" tour
- Extending the "Against All Gods" tour
- Being with Dita Von Teese

The end times are nigh.

[Damian]

I'd agree with you except for Holywood and Last Tour on Earth.

When they recorded LTOE, that realized exactly how GOOD of a band they had become in the live enviroment. They were tight as can be and they played with such energy which translate so well on Last Tour On Earth. The same guy who worked on that album also produced Holywood. And the main point of that album was about "live performances". A good portion of that album is amazing, some songs I can do without, but I just love how the band energy is evidant on the CD.

[GunsOfBrixton]

Originally posted by Damian
I'd agree with you except for Holywood and Last Tour on Earth.

When they recorded LTOE, that realized exactly how GOOD of a band they had become in the live enviroment. They were tight as can be and they played with such energy which translate so well on Last Tour On Earth. The same guy who worked on that album also produced Holywood. And the main point of that album was about "live performances". A good portion of that album is amazing, some songs I can do without, but I just love how the band energy is evidant on the CD.


What made the Last Tour On Earth subpar was the fact they failed to include the greatest songs of that tour. Mechanical Animals, The Speed Of Pain, Posthuman, and Rock N' Roll Nigger all should've been included. I'm not sure how many times Posthuman was played live, but it was played in Milwaukee, and was executed beautifully. At the very minimum, Mechanical Animals and The Speed Of Pain should have been no-brainers, and their exclusion really cuts the balls of that album.

[vht]

Originally posted by GunsOfBrixton
What made the Last Tour On Earth subpar was the fact they failed to include the greatest songs of that tour. Mechanical Animals, The Speed Of Pain, Posthuman, and Rock N' Roll Nigger all should've been included. I'm not sure how many times Posthuman was played live, but it was played in Milwaukee, and was executed beautifully. At the very minimum, Mechanical Animals and The Speed Of Pain should have been no-brainers, and their exclusion really cuts the balls of that album.

I agree. And thats why I rarely ever listen to it. I'd rather listen to a decent quality bootleg and get the FULL concert experience.

But to their defense, they had no choice but to eliminate tracks since you can only fit 80 minutes of music on a CD. But yeah, posthuman and especially the speed the pain, were highlights on that tour. The 2 times I saw that tour, that was the best song both times.

[Damian]

And at least they did release Mechanical Animals (the song) from that recording (it was a bonus track on some MTV thing and I think a Jap promo). I always burn that song into the mix :P

I agree they should have included those songs from the MA tour, but at the same time, it made for a good greatest hits (at the time).

[Shinya]

Originally posted by jester
i dont think you got the point of the video.
What was the point then? Some sort of tongue in cheek commentary on modern music videos? Honestly, I don't care what Manson was trying to do with the video. It embarrassed him and the band. Song's not bad though. I really dug it when I first heard it.

I don't like Last Tour On Earth. It's the way they mixed it that kills it for me. That and excluded songs. The CD is 69:11. That's almost a full 11 minutes leftover. And they should have left off Astonishing Panorama. That would have left even more room. Because it was already on the Celebrity Deathmatch CD. And it ended up being on the Disposable Teens singles and Fight Song EP anyways. Hell on Disposable Teens, it was advertised as a brand new exclusive track.
And yeah, Mechanical Animals from the LTOE recordings is available in the US on the MTV Return Of The Rock Vol. 2 CD. It's available in Italy on the Holy Manson promo. It's available in Japan as a bonus track on their Holy Wood album. It's a standard track for them. Bastards. The thing about that track is that since it ended up being left off the album, it wasn't mixed the same way as the LTOE tracks. So IMO it sounds better. I think it's one of the best live tracks the band has ever released.

Like I said, the sound on LTOE sucks IMO. I'll never forget the first time I listened to Beautiful People off it and being severely disappointed. I was used to the way it sounded in all of the live video clips I had seen of it on the Dead To The World tour. My dislike of John started right then and there. But if you listen to various live recordings from singles, EP's and compilations they sound great. So why did a full on live album end up sucking in sound quality? Listen to the awesome Remix & Repent live tracks. Or if you wanna hear John, listen to The Love Song live on the Ozzfest 2001 CD, the audio on GGG or the two live track on the original Nobodies single. Sounds great (even though with Zim they would have sounded even better).

Oh yeah, Last Day On Earth should NOT have been edited from the original live recording. Also I was really pissed when I found out Australia got an entire bonus disc. This was before I knew about a UK release and before I was a collector. Overall, Last Tour sucks. Even though it was the first full length Manson album I bought.

[Ripper_Su]

Im still going with Holywood and the shitty tracklisting on LWF.

[McSpade]

Originally posted by Damian


why dont you just say you're against everything he did since twiggy left?
mostly everybody says "Personal Jesus, Tainted Love, kicking twiggy" was a mistake made by him! why the f+ckin hell?
i can just laugh about that...and i dont think that these were mistakes!

[spookykid927]

Originally posted by Damian
The following:

-Personal Jesus
-Mind of a Lunatic
-Tainted Love
-Highway to Hell
-The KKK Took my Baby Away
-Get my Rocks Off
-Personal Jesus
-Surrender
-The Way I Am Remix
-Linkin Park remix
-The Nobodies (AAG single)
-Party Monster
-ALL GAoG remixes
-Getting that HORRID website
-Not putting Mommy Dear on a single
-Personal Jesus
-Letting good talent go to such waste (himself and bandmates)

I'm guessing you don't have a sense of humor; his role in Party Monster was hilarious, just for laughs, man.

[darkmistress13]

Losing his 'personality' after meeting Dita von Teese.

I miss 'old days' Manson. He needs to get back where he belongs: on stage to his fans!

I guess the worst will be "Continuing Staying with Dita" and moving more and more further away from Music.

Getting rid of Twiggy and 5 were another big mistakes.

[KlNDERFELD]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.

i agree. JOHN5 kicked ass and still does even alone!! The Omen with DMX and Manson was not a bad song at all!

[Kalika]

- not doing a cover version of "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?"

- In the "Tainted Love" video, it should've been Jeordie in the hot tub with Manson

[ImAgE]

Letting John 5 go......Losing Twiggy sucked but addign Skold had a postive effect.....This Mark Chahussee guy is a lame and his look sucks.......Manson needs to grab his balls and ask 5 back......

[H_Lektronika]

Originally posted by darkmistress13
Losing his 'personality' after meeting Dita von Teese.

I miss 'old days' Manson. He needs to get back where he belongs: on stage to his fans!

I guess the worst will be "Continuing Staying with Dita" and moving more and more further away from Music.

Getting rid of Twiggy and 5 were another big mistakes.

Why does everyone seem to blame Dita for his decline in music (if you can even call it that)? Maybe she's got the ill-nana. You guys are haters.

[Vexation]

Originally posted by Zimzum69
DMX(the Omen) and thats all i can think of right now.

That was a good collab, the first part of that track (Damian, from the "It's Dark & Hell Is Hot" LP) is a classic.

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by Kalika
- not doing a cover version of "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?"

- In the "Tainted Love" video, it should've been Jeordie in the hot tub with Manson Okay.......

[DDMurdock]

Originally posted by Dope Cat
-The Twiggy leaving Manson situation
-The whole Golden Age Of Grotesque era
-And the last nail in the coffin was the firing of John5

Everything after that is one big mess.

[Ant|P0pe]

1. Let Twiggy go!
2. GAoG
3. Perform with Eminem! (That one was just stupid!!)

1: Twiggy was the perfect bassist of the band!!! Why should Skold go in the band? Twiggy was the best! Just miss him so fucking much!!

2: Babble-esque lyrics! Worked just on TitnS and mOBSCENE.

3: Dumbass Manson! I still love u but i can't forgive you for that one.

[evilkiera]

Manson's big mistake when he gave head to all the members of NIN.

[controlledchaos]

Originally posted by helovesblink182

I think that Manson's biggest mistakes have been in his personal life and his psychology. I think he used to maintain a great dichotomy between who Marilyn Manson was and the values of Brian Warner. A small example of this can be seen in his "Thank You - type" sections of his albums. They have become progressively small, shorter, and the people whom he thanks have become less personal. Manson has pulled a Boy George, Prince, in becoming one and inseperable from his art. He's no longer a human outside of his home. He's an actor. And that my friends is psychologically unhealthy. It leads you to severe depression and a longing for contact with meaningful people. And if your only solace is a woman named Dita Von Teese who only likes you for your sucess, it's kinda disheartening.



While I don't agree with you on your assessment of GAOG, I do agree with you on this. While living your art is admirable it does have it's drawbacks. He is literally becoming the Antichrist Superstar ("i am the one you want and the one you want is so unreal"). He isn't "real" anymore to his fans. He's almost inaccessible. While I love Manson's art and love to see how he lives his art, I'm afraid it will become a self-undoing (a la Antichrist Superstar).

[CarpathianRose]

His new cosmetic shit.......seriously, what the fuck? I just hope he doesn't come out with some sort of clothing line.

[ArtHistrionics]

I'd say his biggest mistake was buckling to ridiculous notions of "selling out" and switching directions after Mechanical Animals toward a depressed-gothic revision instead of pursuing the potential sound and image direction Mechanical Animals presented.

for that matter, simply abandoning his psychedelic side (portrait-era + mechAnimal sound image) for complete gothboredomgrind.

[Oamlhtw]

DMX song.

[Persephone]

Originally posted by CarpathianRose
His new cosmetic shit.......seriously, what the fuck? I just hope he doesn't come out with some sort of clothing line.
My thoughts exactly.

[mirrorsawlljk]

Getting rid of John 5. There's a good chance John 5 could write a decent song in just about any style Manson wanted to do in the future.

[Micky Hotlove]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.

[kaldrinna]

I asked this along time ago....so MM DID have his rib(s) removed?

The biggest/worst mistake? Getting married is a HUGE mistake. I say, Stay single as long as possible!!!!

[Alma]

Dating what's er tits

[evilkiera]

Originally posted by Alma
Dating what's er tits Dita

[kaldrinna]

Has he had a couple of ribs removed? No one will answer me. *pouts*

Giving head to the members of NIN? how fucking bored to you have to be?

*shakes her head*

[Elitist Scum]

Originally posted by kaldrinna
Has he had a couple of ribs removed? No one will answer me. *pouts*

Giving head to the members of NIN? how fucking bored to you have to be?

*shakes her head*

He has not had ribs removed. This stupid rumor has been floating since 1999. It is not true tough.

[kaldrinna]

Thank you Elitist.......I read that MM was parading around stage with 'his' removed rib.....so maybe thats where the stupid rumour got started? As far as we know, it is probably some apes rib that he bought. lololol

[kaldrinna]

.................I wish I could write like that...........thank you BarryC. :-)

I didn't by gAOg......I have the rest, however..........*I am still absorbing what you just wrote*.......................ok, I'm a dork.....great article, however.....

[Sherry]

Pfft...the ribs huh? Nah. I think the biggest mistake was throwing all of that cocaine and condoms out into his audience and encouraging the boys to rape the girls...oh yeah. And then committing suicide right there on stage. I mean Holy Hell...and all this time we thought Christ was the only one risen from the dead.

???

[Alma]

Originally posted by Damian
John was fired for working on music for outside bands (avril, shina twain) while he was in Manson. It was a breech of contract and nothing more. What ever vertigo or what not is just an excuse to get the focus on what happened.

What song did he do with Avril?

[kaldrinna]

Nicolae, how did you do that signature? You'all are sure talented......Could anyone make me a unique signature?

[derelict]

Originally posted by Rabbelrauser
I think it was gODHEAD.


Tainted Love. the song. the video. period.

whats with the pop culture shit? i didnt like This Is the New Shit's video either. that song deserves better.
mOBSCENE rocked ike fuck.


Neo / RJ

[derelict]

Originally posted by helovesblink182
After being around and a fan for his entire musical career, painting career, and movie career... I'd say he hasn't really made any mistakes in his art. It's his art, he creates it, and no one else is putting half as much effort into their's as he does. He gets an A for effort. And I don't care about lineup changes and style changes. Even artists with 40 year long careers like Cher have made numerous changes to their music and their image. And when you look at the entire span of the career it really only supports dividing their career into parts...

I'm going to make it abundantly clear that The Golden Age of Grotesque was meant to be a mockery. The album was released to fufill the end of a contract with Nothing Interscope. I don't think that album was meant to attract new audiences. It was a giant FUCK YOU to Rose McGowan. And the only song that was on it that was good was Spade, because it was originally written for Holy Wood.

I think that Manson's biggest mistakes have been in his personal life and his psychology. I think he used to maintain a great dichotomy between who Marilyn Manson was and the values of Brian Warner. A small example of this can be seen in his "Thank You - type" sections of his albums. They have become progressively small, shorter, and the people whom he thanks have become less personal. Manson has pulled a Boy George, Prince, in becoming one and inseperable from his art. He's no longer a human outside of his home. He's an actor. And that my friends is psychologically unhealthy. It leads you to severe depression and a longing for contact with meaningful people. And if your only solace is a woman named Dita Von Teese who only likes you for your sucess, it's kinda disheartening.

As anyone who has obsorbed the values if there ever were any expressed in this music. You will notice the increased use of heroin and coccaine by the artist have changed his message.

He used to be about self control, personal denial, a wide range of human emotions. And definately most definately he was about destroying gender roles and social conformity.

He's conformed people. He's the alpha male now. Look what the drugs have done to him. All of gAOg sounded a lot like a guy strung out on coke . And this whole I'm an artist so i'm no longer human thing..is very very old.

When he was human he could talk about gods, devils, and other things. Now he has become a god unto himself.

He's fufilled laveys dreams..genius..but still not the good basis for a good person or good art.


that was one of the most intelligent posts i have ever read. i agree with you on all points, especially the conforming. i kinda always knew this was going to happen.. manson not remaining human, but i was expecting post-human, not a god-unto-himself.

there is yet hope. from what i've been reading the past week, things are changing.


Neo / RJ

[Superman]

Originally posted by ElgantlyGrotesk
throwing out j5 for me.

[ace]

Tim Skold
The Golden Age of Grotesque. I mean its ok but its not great like his previous stuff
John 5 leaving

[McSpade]

Originally posted by ace
Tim Skold
The Golden Age of Grotesque.

ah shut the hell up...

[Anarchy Devil]

Going soft trying to appeal to the faggy fucking emo kids.

[angusman3]

The new look, the manson look I love is from the hollywood era.

[McSpade]

Originally posted by angusman3
The new look, the manson look I love is from the hollywood era.

oooh come on, dont you have any good reasons..?

[Sacrilege]

GAOG, plain and simple. Oh yeah, and SLC.

[lunchbox1113]

Originally posted by vht
getting rid of daisy

technically he quit, but only because manson pretty much forced him to do so.


I so agree!

[kaldrinna]

which Hollywood era? past? present? Did you guys read that article from MTV dated 11/04/05. Its really informative and MM talks about how he almost lost his love for music, but then he found this new guitarist and he was encouraged again. He also talks about how he found a woman he can relate to, and isn't ashamed to say it.

It was really good.

kiss kiss

[derelict]

Originally posted by kaldrinna
which Hollywood era? past? present? Did you guys read that article from MTV dated 11/04/05. Its really informative and MM talks about how he almost lost his love for music, but then he found this new guitarist and he was encouraged again. He also talks about how he found a woman he can relate to, and isn't ashamed to say it.

It was really good.

kiss kiss

i did, and was glad to know he was still alive. now i cant wait for that celebritarian shit to take off.
i wish manson was as active online as he was back then. from the look of things, there is hope.


Neo / RJ

[HerrDoKtor]

Stupid tracks on Smells Like Children, like: Fuck Frankie, May Cause Discolouration Of The Urine Or Faeces, Scabs, Guns And Peanut Butter, Dancing With The One-Legged...

Oh, and of course that stupid Tainted Love...Pop-thing!

[kaldrinna]

OMG, I loved Tainted Love, in fact it is a gizzilion times better than the original... Plus Jamie Lee Presley aint that bad to look at. :-)

[derelict]

Originally posted by HerrDoKtor

Oh, and of course that stupid Tainted Love...Pop-thing!


tainted love, absolutely. sure it was better than the original, but it just wasnt 'manson'. shouldnt have included it on TGAOG, that was an awesome cd.


Neo / RJ

[BarryC]

Originally posted by derelict
Tainted Love. the song. the video. period.

whats with the pop culture shit? i didnt like This Is the New Shit's video either. that song deserves better.
mOBSCENE rocked ike fuck.


Neo / RJ

Werent TITNS and mOBSCENE both based off Burlesque/Vaudeville? Why would you like one and not the other.

[derelict]

Originally posted by BarryC
Werent TITNS and mOBSCENE both based off Burlesque/Vaudeville? Why would you like one and not the other.

yes they were. i didnt say i hate TITNS the song. i hated the video. the song is awesome, and thats why it deserves better.

the video, i dont know, i just cant figure out why he did that video at all. it didnt seem very vaudeville/burlesque/grotesk to me, and thats what that album was all about, in his words. i mean, compared to the mOBSCENE video, the new shit vid is just pure shit.

its missing everything that the mobscene video has, all that the mobscene video is. mobscene's video has that attitude, that STYLE, that makes it such a great one-song representation of the whole idea of TGAOG. you just cant beat that.

i still love TITNS, the song. now i'm thinking that because both TITNS and Tainted LOve were on movie soundtracks, the videos might have been made just to fulfil the contract.


Neo / RJ

[MaryVirgin]

Being "sucked" into the whole celebrity/hollywood shit.
People tend to lose themselves this way.

[Shinya]

Originally posted by derelict
shouldnt have included it on TGAOG, that was an awesome cd.
Yeah, that's why some people don't like bonus tracks on the foreign versions of albums. They mess with Manson's vision of how the album is actually supposed to be.

[vcr_funeral]

Pfft...the ribs huh? Nah. I think the biggest mistake was throwing all of that cocaine and condoms out into his audience and encouraging the boys to rape the girls...oh yeah. And then committing suicide right there on stage. I mean Holy Hell...and all this time we thought Christ was the only one risen from the dead.
LOL...But, I think the biggest mistake was him tearing of his genitals at a concert...good greif, how stupid do you have to be to do that? :P

[derelict]

Originally posted by vcr_funeral
LOL...But, I think the biggest mistake was him tearing of his genitals at a concert...good greif, how stupid do you have to be to do that? :P


man.. did i miss EVERYthing?!


Neo / RJ

[vcr_funeral]

lmfao..yes, you did..:P

[Scissors]

the one time he actually tried to dress normally with the koala, with the tagged trucker hat, yeahh. thats it.

ooh and also talking and hanging round Boyd Rice. hes a scary fucker. also hes a Nazi.



<3

[kundun5]

Trying to introduce art to the trailer park and to the dregs of Walmart society.

[MindRelapse]

"Golden Age of Grotesque." Decent album, but Manson should have spent a little more time on the lyrics and a lot of the music was too repetitive for it's own good. The concept of the album also seemed abandoned after the title track, which is sad because I always thought the concept was promising. And considering how long he had been hyping up the record and how much time was spent on it, it should have been MUCH better to say the least.

Relying too heavily on cover songs was another mistake. "Lest We Forget" is another, and it could have been a great collection. But leaving out such essential tracks/singles as "Man That You Fear" and "Coma White" just made it feel half assed. "Personal Jesus" was a horrible cover too, but it helped the album go gold.

Rose McGowan also comes to mind, though love can burn you like that. I guess the only other thing I can think of is not releasing the Holy Wood novel. I would still love to read it and I know a lot of other fans would as well. It would be a nice companion piece to the album, sort of like Pink Floyd releasing "The Wall" as a film.

[snog]

Originally posted by JamesFranco


letting Dita warp his mind into burlesque.

GAOG.



being a media whore when he used to make fun of people like that. [/B]

agreed!
i also think that fake eyelash and poufed up pompador in some of the 'personal jesus' era pix is a real fashion faux pax....

[Munk]

Allowing the drug use to take away so much of his soul and becoming what he once was against.He's really become not really marilyn manson as much as a parady of himself.I understand art and music rather well but cant figure out why he would have done the gaog as badly as he did.He puts out one video for tainted love and wears some fake gold teeth and suddenly he thinks he has a ghetto pass.I'm not one of those narrow minded fans who think he should go release a cd sounding like antichchrist or some other cd of choice.I just think he needs to grow the fuck up and stop putting shit in his nose because snorting so much it makes your nose bleed really isnt art so much as it's disgusting.

[derelict]

Originally posted by Munk
Allowing the drug use to take away so much of his soul and becoming what he once was against.He's really become not really marilyn manson as much as a parady of himself.I understand art and music rather well but cant figure out why he would have done the gaog as badly as he did.He puts out one video for tainted love and wears some fake gold teeth and suddenly he thinks he has a ghetto pass.I'm not one of those narrow minded fans who think he should go release a cd sounding like antichchrist or some other cd of choice.I just think he needs to grow the fuck up and stop putting shit in his nose because snorting so much it makes your nose bleed really isnt art so much as it's disgusting.

yeah i know what youre talking about. but i dont think you should judge the whole of TGAOG by that one song. i HATE Tainted Love, hate it like fuck, and i wasnt surprised when i finally saw the video. but it seems to me the video wasnt really his idea.. i dont know, maybe it was part of some contract or something. if it was, then signing that contract WAS one of his worst mistakes.


Neo / RJ

[razorsharp]

Originally posted by derelict
yeah i know what youre talking about. but i dont think you should judge the whole of TGAOG by that one song. i HATE Tainted Love, hate it like fuck, and i wasnt surprised when i finally saw the video. but it seems to me the video wasnt really his idea.. i dont know, maybe it was part of some contract or something. if it was, then signing that contract WAS one of his worst mistakes.


Neo / RJ

The strangest thing about "Tainted Love", is that everyone i know who isn't a Manson fan liked the song, and everyone that's worth to be named a real fan hated it.

For me, it's the worst single Manson ever made, even though it was only a cover. The original version by Soft Cell sucks also.

[derelict]

Originally posted by razorsharp
The strangest thing about "Tainted Love", is that everyone i know who isn't a Manson fan liked the song, and everyone that's worth to be named a real fan hated it.

For me, it's the worst single Manson ever made, even though it was only a cover. The original version by Soft Cell sucks also.


word.
that song sucks like fuck all the way round.



Neo / RJ

[Shinya]

Originally posted by derelict
but it seems to me the video wasnt really his idea.. i dont know, maybe it was part of some contract or something. if it was, then signing that contract WAS one of his worst mistakes.
Nah, he's just as guilty as the rest of production for that video. Remember that part where he's got the glasses on and his jacket is open and he isn't wearing the shirt underneath? And he does those gay-ass hand gestures like gang bangers do? He said that it was his own version of what you see in a lot of rap videos and it wasn't a parody at all.

[derelict]

Originally posted by Shinya
Nah, he's just as guilty as the rest of production for that video. Remember that part where he's got the glasses on and his jacket is open and he isn't wearing the shirt underneath? And he does those gay-ass hand gestures like gang bangers do? He said that it was his own version of what you see in a lot of rap videos and it wasn't a parody at all.


yeah, i noticed.. what the fuck was with that?



Neo / RJ

[Deathdust]

answering thread: fucking 'tina potts'?

[WorkofArt]

...and then he played Tainted love on every show. At least he show his butt while playing it in Dresden.
Depeche Mode said that Personal Jesus sounded like Karaoke. The video was cool, but Fletcher's right.

[derelict]

Originally posted by WorkofArt
...and then he played Tainted love on every show. At least he show his butt while playing it in Dresden.
Depeche Mode said that Personal Jesus sounded like Karaoke. The video was cool, but Fletcher's right.

i actually liked manson's version of Personal Jesus better than depeche mode's. manson makes the lyrics sound so much truer. or whatever.


i dont know why he became so obsessed with tainted love. its such a fucked up piece of shit.


Neo / RJ

[Hellhammer]

I think for leaving the image that made him a big rockstar