The Revelation in "Cryptorchid"

[KutestKittyKat]

There is a verse that repeats itself over and over, which I find somewhat powerful, and this is an interpretation

"Prick your finger, it is done, the moon has now eclipsed the sun, the angel has spread its wings, the time has come for bitter things..."

The first line "prick you finger" is tied to the idea of self mutilation and suicide, but curiously it belongs to "Sleeping Beauty", as when she aged sixteen she should prick her finger on a splindle of a spinning wheel and sleep for a hundred years. The album speaks about a metamorphosis. The innocence and humanity are symbolized in the figure of the Wormboy and he is sentenced by his counterpart to sleep forever, but not die.

"The moon has now eclipsed the sun..." the moon is tied to the night, and the sun to the day, therefore osbcurity conquers the lighter side.

" Angel has spread its wings," means the soul has left the body, "the time has come for bitter things" completes the rest of the picture.

If the same verse is included in "Antichrist Superstar", how does it fit into the overall meaning of the song?

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

a reminder of where he came from?

[pyrox02]

You just reminded me... Where the fuck is Hazekiah still at?

[Komaschwarz]

"Prick your finger" is tied to an oath, not self mutilation or suicide. Give Manson a little more credit then that.

If you follow the cyclical nature of Antichrist Svpterstar, you should be able to figure out that Manson does not die, or take a long sleep in Cryptorchid. A transformation certainly occurs (as is evident by the podium of the shock symbol with wings in the video for a brief second), but this death is purely metaphorical.

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

i always thought he just meant that he had "sealed the deal" so to speak, but he had to say it with a jingle.

the moon has now eclipsed the sun - darkness is blocking out light, satan blocks out god, the grotesque becomes beautiful.

well thats my take on it.
the rest speaks for itself prety much

when i listen to mister superstar it always reminds me of the Oracle. and then comes the Angel with the Scabbed Wings

SCABeret sacrilegends
dead is what he is - his career during gaog, no actually, marilyn manson has in effect died because you never ever believed.
powder his nose - (s)aint cocaine snorting
deflower the freshest crop - we aim to depress
he does what he please - around this time he has stated (in interviews) he will simply be doing what he wants

he is the saviour - personal jesus

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

as many times as you like, i could do this all day.

get back, your always gonna please him
when i was at the GAOG concert, at the start he said, im not gonna waste your time with religion or politics, its time for some good old fashioned Rock and Roll (sores).

sorry for taking the thread off topic thouhg

[Komaschwarz]

Why are you trying to directly connect Antichrist Svpterstar to the Golden Age of Grotesque? Why not investigate, and research instead of spouting off theories that have no backing of evidence whatsoever?

Take a lookat
www.nachtkabarett.com before you go off on a tangent

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

sorry, im high

edit: that site makes some good points and does show how marilyn mansons art is unoriginal but bullshit is still bullshit no matter how detailed it is.

[Calculations]

Originally posted by $üpê®HïêrÕ
sorry, im high



bullshit

[GodIsClosed]

Originally posted by KutestKittyKat
There is a verse that repeats itself over and over, which I find somewhat powerful, and this is an interpretation

"Prick your finger, it is done, the moon has now eclipsed the sun, the angel has spread its wings, the time has come for bitter things..."

The first line "prick you finger" is tied to the idea of self mutilation and suicide, but curiously it belongs to "Sleeping Beauty", as when she aged sixteen she should prick her finger on a splindle of a spinning wheel and sleep for a hundred years. The album speaks about a metamorphosis. The innocence and humanity are symbolized in the figure of the Wormboy and he is sentenced by his counterpart to sleep forever, but not die.

"The moon has now eclipsed the sun..." the moon is tied to the night, and the sun to the day, therefore osbcurity conquers the lighter side.

" Angel has spread its wings," means the soul has left the body, "the time has come for bitter things" completes the rest of the picture.

If the same verse is included in "Antichrist Superstar", how does it fit into the overall meaning of the song?


:o

[The King]

LOL Koma, pwn teh n00bs

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by $üpê®HïêrÕ
sorry, im high

edit: that site makes some good points and does show how marilyn mansons art is unoriginal but bullshit is still bullshit no matter how detailed it is.

From what I've examined, that site has no one with an IQ over forty-five.

On another note, shut the fuck up. There is a major difference between having something serve as inspiration, and stealing it.

[The King]

Hey hey be nice, mine is 72 >:O

[profane]

Originally posted by Komaschwarz
From what I've examined, that site has no one with an IQ over forty-five.

On another note, shut the fuck up. There is a major difference between having something serve as inspiration, and stealing it.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Brad.

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

i didnt realise that people would so emotional over it. sorry.

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by profane
I couldn't have said it better myself, Brad.

It just gets really old really quick. People assume that random miracles of creation suddenly pop into true artists heads in order for them to create, when in reality, it's almost always an observation that someone else has made that the artist goes on to expand upon. Much of Piccaso's work, Shakespeare's work, and Van Gogh's work would not have been created, had they not been inspired by something.

[profane]

Exactly - EVERY artist is inspired and wants to immitate - which in turn makes a new artist. Art is imitation, period.

[mandyko13]

this verse is pretty popular, everyone knows it, it is the Antichirst Superstar's background.....
that's what I think

I think Antichirst superstar is that verse and a lot of numerology. Yesterday I made some numerology stuff with that album... it is perfect.

Who made the numerology calculations in Antichrist supertsar? Pogo?

[Komaschwarz]

If there is a God, he will surely smite Mandyko13.

[koolboee cdmo87]

Adding to the talk about MM being inspired, these lines are from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, on the closer "Eclipse"...

"And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon."
[a full lyrics transcription can be read here (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pink-floyd/108681.html).]

That line is basically saying we all have the potential to do good and be happy, but other things (relationships, religion, government, etc. etc.) get in the way of it. The negative, draining aspects block us from seeing happiness - the moon eclipses the Sun.

"Cryptorchid" is the point where the character grows up (gets his balls, if you will) and upon discovering the stresses of adult life, he greatly struggles with it, and makes a choice where any potential for him to be fulfilled and happy has been squashed. The moon (his nihilism stemming from society) has now eclipsed (overtaken) the sun (his happiness).

Anyway, considering MM is a big Pink Floyd fan, that line (and the album in general) could likely be a great influence on this track.

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by koolboee cdmo87

"Cryptorchid" is the point where the character grows up (gets his balls, if you will) [/B]

For the love of God, the secret audio in Cryptorchid is "I wish I had my wings", not "I wish I had my balls".

[koolboee cdmo87]

I wasn't talking about the secret audio... I was referencing the title of the song. Take a few breaths.

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

Originally posted by Komaschwarz
For the love of God, the secret audio in Cryptorchid is "I wish I had my wings", not "I wish I had my balls".

ive heard it. he does appear to say balls one time. its either balls, or he does a weird moan over the top of wings.

[Komaschwarz]

Originally posted by $üpê®HïêrÕ
ive heard it. he does appear to say balls one time. its either balls, or he does a weird moan over the top of wings.

EDIT: Just seeing this thread months after I was corrected makes me a bit uneasy. For what it's worth, I was initially mistaken: you are correct. Both balls/wings are said at the same time. Though your banned, so I doubt an apology is worth anything to you now.

Yet what is Cryptorchidism?

A lack of balls.

It sounds to me like balls - and it makes more sense in context of the song.

I was initially mistaken, both are said (and mention of both appears on the NK).

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

yeah its exactly what i said. i just watched the video.
it sounds like balls because of the weird moan over the top. but he also says wings underneath.

intentional? or not.

cryptorchidism a condition in which one or both testes fail to descend normally. since thats the name of the song, and when he says it there are ball shaped objects on the screen. i think maybe he is hinting at what he means by wings.

[driedupandtied]

manson also sais "i wish i had balls" over and over in this song, care to interprit this?

[Calculations]

Originally posted by $üpê®HïêrÕ


cryptorchidism a condition in which one or both testes fail to descend normally. since thats the name of the song, and when he says it there are ball shaped objects on the screen. i think maybe he is hinting at what he means by wings.

Damn. He got some back-up knowledge.

[$üpê®HïêrÕ]

Originally posted by driedupandtied
manson also sais "i wish i had balls" over and over in this song, care to interprit this?

lol
hav u even read the thread

[Hellhammer]

i think cryptorchid is a vision of the future

[Welovehate]

Komaschwarz you know,you are nice as a hand in a non faggot asshole.you're fucking arrogant.

[iwtv]

Originally posted by Welovehate
Komaschwarz you know,you are nice as a hand in a non faggot asshole.you're fucking arrogant.

[DeusExKunst]

He has every right to come off as an asshole - he's the one who provides the knowledge you seek.

[Vamediah]

if anyone could get back to the actual topic here...


id like to give my two cents about this thing, the eclipse is obviously a reference to the crucifiction of Christ, when the moon blocked out the sung and darkness fell.

[ironmessiah]

I see this song as the start of the transformation from worm to superstar.

Firstly "I feel my back, its changing shape" implies the first apperence of his wings.

ANGEL: Kazahel (QTzH+AL)
POLARITY: Sun


NATURE: Benevolent, restless, cheerful, freedom-loving, idealistic, adventure-seeking, reverent, ardent, sincere. His voice is pleasant, but her has a tendency to moralize.

FUNCTION: Matters that expand personal horizons, travel, distant communications, dealings with distant relatives, escape from all forms or prison or bondage. New vistas of thought or experiance.

ANGEL: Hazekiah (HTzQ+IH)
POLARITY: Moon

NATURE: Critical, moralizing, tactless, careless about the feelings of others, always wishing to be on the move, arrogant and boastful. Honest, bust she tends to exaggerate.

FUNCTION: To expose lies, to strike to the heart of issues, to reveal deception and pretense in all intellectual matters, to bring down false prophets, stop mail and communications fraud, to punish falsehoods in media and advertising.


Many thanks to the Nachtkabarett...

The Sun, the benevolent well meaning child is hidden by The Moon, the cold hard antichrist superstar.

Not being an expert on such matters, I can only make links between what other have already found.




ironmessiah

[iwtv]

Originally posted by ironmessiah
The Sun, the benevolent well meaning child is hidden by The Moon, the cold hard antichrist superstar.

Not being an expert on such matters, I can only make links between what other have already found.




ironmessiah

Therefore, "The moon has now eclipsed the sun/angel has spread its wings..."

[DeusExKunst]

Originally posted by Komaschwarz
Watch the video. Do you see a shock podium with wings fluttering over him, or do you see balls fluttering over him?

WINGS.

I highly doubt that in a song with several references to angels, that Manson would talk about getting balls, when there are clearly wings over his head during the hidden audio.

Yet what is Cryptorchidism?

A lack of balls.

It sounds to me like balls - and it makes more sense in context of the song.

[Gen Appithy]

that section of ACSS is all about the worm/little horn growing into his own force and based around the theme of transformation. the worm gets his wings the boy gets his balls. he becomes a man to be reckoned with.


Originally posted by KutestKittyKat
T


"The moon has now eclipsed the sun..."

the worm/little horn has eclipse or will eclipse ome[e]ga/svperstar which was the inspiration for his transformation.

[CatInTheDopeHat]

it is pretty much the story of sleeping beauty she pricks her finger and the has eclipsed the sun because its always night because everyone falls into an endless sleep. The time has come for bitter things because the malificent character or villan of the story is taking over and making the world evil or full of hatred. But thats just my opinon.

[pyrox02]

What? Prick your finger and the eclipse of the sun refer to some sort of ritual (Angel has spread his wings) leading to the coming of the Antichrist Superstar.

Eh?

I find this plausible therefore everyone who said anything else is wrong.

So stop coming up with all these weird ass back-stories.

Please.

[bjornwad]

Originally posted by KutestKittyKat
The first line "prick you finger" belongs to "Sleeping Beauty", as when she aged sixteen she should prick her finger on a splindle of a spinning wheel and sleep for a hundred years.

no, "prick your finger" means he has fatty dick fingers

[Norsefire]

Originally posted by bjornwad
no, "prick your finger" means he has fatty dick fingers

LMAO, thats brilliant.

[CatInTheDopeHat]

haha

[Illuminatus]

"Prick your finger, it is done
The moon has now eclipsed the sun
The angel has spread its wings
The time has come for bitter things"

As others have already pointed out in this thread, the track is the point where the worm begins to transform into the angel (caterpillar/butterly metamorphosis symbolism). "Prick your finger it is done" is likely a reference to a ritual or pact of some sort involving signing in blood, not necessarily literal, but fits in nicely with the theme of the song.

In various ancient religions, mythologies, theosophy,alchemy etc. The symbolism of the sun and moon are as follows:

Sun: God, spirit, soul, positive, masculine, heavenly life, light etc.

Moon: Animal, physical matter, body, negative, feminine, earthly life, darkness etc.

It can be said then, that the moon eclipsing the sun is the boys lower, animal nature taking over his higher, spiritual nature and soul. It's alot more complex than this of course, as the moon is not a true light but a reflection of the suns light. This is important to explain why the worm/boy turns into an angel, Theosophist Alvin Boyd Kuhn has put this better than I could:

"As the moon stands for the body, the reflected light of the sun upon it and from it to us, betokens that we can have access only to as much of the spiritual glory as our bodies can give passage to, or give expression to, or become susceptible to. In incarnation we are in spiritual darkness, or have access only to that spiritual force and radiance that can get down to us through the intervening medium of the physical mechanism......So the bodily registration and transmission of godly nature in our physical life is all that we can have of deity. Hence the ancient widespread desire to escape the bonds of the body by rigid mortification and crucifixion of its heavier tendencies. When in incarnation, we are deprived of the full glow of our inner light......
......It thus also symbolizes the human body, which is surely not the light of spirit, yet in its structure and in its outward countenance, it reflects and bears witness to the divine spirit that animates it, the god hidden within. (Illuminatus:The angel hidden within the worm, in this case) A man's spirit shines out on his face as the sun shines on the moon!"

This of course ties into the reflecting god later in the album. There's plenty more than can be said about the sun/moon symbolism and how it relates to the entire album as well as this track but I'll leave that up to you to research an interpret for yourselves. Theosophy is a good place to start.

The position of the track on the album (track 6) is also important. In the Egyptian book of the dead is the statement "Osiris enters the moon on the sixth day."

Meh, I'll quote again, it's quicker:

"As the moon types the woman, lunar typology was made to match feminine functions, and the three dark days of the moon were extended to, or represented as, five, to equate the five days of the feminine period. As the ovum, the seed of life from above, descends into the womb for fecundation at the end of the period, it was used to type the descent of the god into incarnation after a period of pralaya or non-existence in a world of form, and the typism was transferred from the woman to the moon, her astronomical counterpart. Or the moon-goddess was simply figured as menstruating."

6th day, 6th track. On the 6th day god decends into the world of form etc.

"The descent of the god was timed on solar symbolism, and therefore was made at sunset. Counting from Sunday, Friday is the sixth day, and evening the time of the descent. Jesus and Horus both enter the boat to cross the sea at eventide."

Horus is an egyptian sky god, one of his eyes the moon, the other the sun.

Some numerology for you to tie in with the track number and it being hard to reach the number 7:

" As the underlying idea of the Sabbath is the crowning of the six rounds or waves of elemental life, non-intelligent, with the coming of the seventh or spiritual intelligence, and the bringing of peace (the same Egyptian word, hetep, which means seven also means peace and is the name of the Egyptian Messiah, Iu-em-hetep, he who comes as the seventh, and he who as the seventh brings peace to the seven elementary forces of blind nature)--(See lecture on the Myth of the Sun-gods for fuller elucidation.)-- there was thus a Sabbath on the seventh day of each month, called the Feast of the Tenait. Then as the full moon was typical of the complete divinization of the lower man, and came on the 15th, there was another Sabbath held eight days later. Each month thus had at first only two Sabbaths, on the seventh (evening of the sixth) and the fifteenth."

I'll leave the rest of the interpretation to the ingenium of the student, as Crowley would say.

[john_22_33]

Its from Antichrist Superstar music. Its the same in the 2 songs

[ironmessiah]

the moon has now eclipsed the sun - darkness is blocking out light, satan blocks out god, the grotesque becomes beautiful.


OH MY, there is so much more to it that that!

[demon5]

from the time where the phrase is used in cryptorchid and the time it is used in antichrist superstar we see the formation of wormboy into the antichrist. it describes the ritual by which wormboy begins his shedding of weak flesh to become the monster or antichrist superstar. ive always wondered if the entire phrase were taken from actual occult lore like some sort of actually existing ritual.

[Hazekiah]

Having given a quick glance at this thread, it would appear that roughly three of you have any real clue what's really going on with the verse in question.

But you're not there yet.









That said, I'm not telling.

:P

You just reminded me... Where the fuck is Hazekiah still at?

Since you posted that in early '05, that should've been right after I hurriedly evacuated one badass inner-city apartment and spent almost half-a-year of my life rotting away in the lame-ass 'burbs while I lived with a close pal briefly -- during which time I had no internet connection.

:(

[DorisDahmer]

"The descent of the god was timed on solar symbolism, and therefore was made at sunset. Counting from Sunday, Friday is the sixth day, and evening the time of the descent. Jesus and Horus both enter the boat to cross the sea at eventide."

Horus is an egyptian sky god, one of his eyes the moon, the other the sun.

Since you brought up the topic of Horis, is is noteworthy that in the movie Begotten (the movie the music video if from) the woman in the beginning jacks off the dead man just like when Isis impregnates herself with the penis of the killed god Osiris and gives birth to Horus. It is all connected....somehow.